Prabhupāda: These are also done within these five years.

Guest (1): And that, too, in the foreign countries, to establish that, it is...

Guest (2): Yes, it's a wonderful thing. I was all the while imagining, imagining...

Prabhupāda: So I went in USA without any sponsor. No, I... That is the... One gentleman sponsored for one month. One month only. Not even one month; I remained there only three weeks, and then I chalked out my plan. He was my friend's son, and my friend wrote him that "You sponsor Swāmījī for one month."

Guest (1): Some American gentleman?

Prabhupāda: No, Indian. One gentleman from Agra. So his son immediately sent me, sponsoring. But still, the government objected that "We cannot allow you to go there, because you are sponsored by an individual person." But I wanted to see chief controller of... what is called, foreign exchange, Mr. Rao. So he kindly accepted: "Yes, Swāmījī, you can go." He fought. [indistinct].

Guest (2): That time it was very difficult. Passport I have got already.

Prabhupāda: Passport, visa.

Guest (2): Now, the difficulty is about visa only. Passport I have secured. It's cleared it for three years. [indistinct] passport. Now it is easy to get a passport. I do possess. After getting the passport I wrote and corresponded with your...

Prabhupāda: So there was no money with me, and in an awkward position... My philosophy is completely different. I was to ask them to cease from four kinds of sinful activities, and they are habituated to these things. Illicit sex, and drinking wine, and intoxication and gambling—these are their daily affairs. So I was thinking, "I have to stop this. Who will hear me?" But Kṛṣṇa... Everything became...

Guest (1): May I ask one thing? How you chose this America to be your first...?

Prabhupāda: My Guru Mahārāja ordered me that "You go and preach this cult amongst the English-speaking public, and specially in the Western countries." So first of all I thought of London, where is London. But I had no money. So I got the opportunity of going U.S.A. free on the, on a trade ship by the Scindia Steam Navigation. They gave me their first-class cabinet, the proprietor's cabinet. I was well carried. But first of all I went free on a steamship. I had no money, what to speak of aeroplane. So... What was your question?

Guest (1): My question was that how you selected America to be your first...

Prabhupāda: Yes. So I got the opportunity to go to America because their ship goes to New York. So I accepted, "All right, we can see, either go to London or New York." New York is better place than London.

Guest (1): I see. There are number of Indians in New York. In New York, Indians are...

Prabhupāda: No. In London there are many Indians.

Guest (1): In London, they say, there are about twelve lakhs of Indians in London.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There are many Indians. In the street you will find it is just like ordinary Indian city. [Hindi]

Guest (3): [indistinct] He's my old friend.

Guest (4): We both are coming from Horir[?], leaving Delhi after [indistinct]. We are interested in this Gītā-jayantī Mahotsava, and we shall be more interested in you also. You are coming...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Guest (4): So this is [indistinct] Kumar Sharma. He's an..., a learned[?] man. He has brought this tape recorder. He has come to tape your interview. Last night we met Mr. Ja.[?]

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Guest (4): And he has permitted us to tape your interview for our paper. So if you don't mind, we shall ask some questions.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (4): And we'll finish before you go there.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. No, my men will go. Even if I am a little late, it doesn't matter. [to devotees] So you go there and join at night. Then I will come in.

Guest (4): [Hindi] ...America from the last five, six years back and incorporated this Kṛṣṇa conscious movement there. That means to say that it is Kṛṣṇa alone, it is bhakti of Kṛṣṇa alone through which you can have God realization, and Kṛṣṇa alone... [indistinct]... servant of Lord Kṛṣṇa and...

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is God. People are searching after "Where is God?"—but they are missing Kṛṣṇa. That is the dilemma of the present society.

Guest (4): You have written number of books also [indistinct] volumes are there. It is not only appealing to your eyes but to your heart and to your soul. By the very look of the book, our heart is..., rather, our soul is elated, and we come into that state of mind. Huh? So after reading this, we don't know what stage will come. See how beautiful... [indistinct]

Guest (5): [indistinct] Will they be answering in Hindi or English?

Prabhupāda: Which one?

Guest (5): This gentleman. You'll be answering in Hindi or English?

Prabhupāda: As you like.

Guest (5): They know Hindi.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Guest (6): [Hindi]

Guest (7): No, no. If you want to put questions in English, Swāmījī will reply in English. If you want to put in Hindi, I hope... Yesterday I heard him in Hindi, I had the good fortune, and I can say with my understanding that he is equally past master in Hindi, although... [laughter] Yesterday we had the good occasion and the good fortune of hearing him in Hindi as well. [Hindi]

Guest (8): Disciples will speak English only.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they do not speak.

Guest (8): They probably don't know Hindi.

Prabhupāda: No.

Guest (7): And I will also give you one song, you see, so that you may know that collection is me[?] a memory for me of my great svami, for whom I was always thinking for the last more than six months.

Guest (6): [Hindi].

Prabhupāda: [Hindi] I was born, Vaiṣṇava family. My father was a great devotee. Naturally, he gave me... Oh, I am speaking in Hindi..., English. [Hindi, talking about centers opened in the West amongst other things]

Guest (6): [Hindi about Hindu dharma]

Prabhupāda: [Hindi] They are not attracted to the Hindu dharma.

Guest (6): Then why they attracted to Hare Rāma, Hare Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: They are attracted to Kṛṣṇa. These people, they are [Hindi]. But you are taking Kṛṣṇa as Hindu. That is your mistake. Kṛṣṇa is... Hindu ne. He is God. He is God. God Hindu ne, Mussulman ne, Christian ne, Parsi ne—God is God. [Hindi] And I am also not interested to preach Hindu dharma. [Hindi] ...Kṛṣṇa dharma. Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is the only dharma. [Hindi] ...Kṛṣṇa literature. It is not a Hindu dharma literature. [Hindi]

So they are not interested in many gods, Durga, Kali, or Śiva, or... [Hindi] Strictly, if you take the version of Bhagavad-gītā, why Bhagavān says that "You give up all religion. Simply you take to the shelter of My feet?" That means to take shelter of Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet is the only religion. [Hindi] Practically that was against Hindu conception. [Hindi] We are not talking of God, [Hindi] we are talking of love.

Why you misunderstand? Don't misunderstand the philosophy. We are teaching love of Godhead. It is not we are teaching that you become afraid of God [Hindi]. [break] [Hindi] Bahut easy process hai. You come, sing, dance, and take prasādam. Is there any difficulty? If people come to us, in melodious songs they sing and they dance and when they are tired they take sumptuously prasādam, so what can be the more convenient way? [Hindi]

You are a qualified lawyer, but you cannot do for want of money. [Hindi] He has no right because he does not know what is name. Nāma-cintāmaṇi-kṛṣṇaś caitanya-rasa-vigrahaḥ. [Hindi] Yes. Because you are responsible, if you cut throat of a goat, then you'll be responsible. Just like in your jurist[?] law, if you commit murder—you are lawyer—you have to be hanged. So, [Hindi] " for life." So I am killing one life. I shall not be liable to repay by my life.

Guest (4): But then why the Vedas allow us to eat the meat of goat and other animals?

Prabhupāda: That is to restrict. Just like government opens liquor shop. That does not mean government is encouraging to drink. Those who are drunkard, going create disturbance, for them there is little concession. But they are responsible. If they become drunkard and causes some disturbance in the street, then he will be arrested by the police. He cannot say, "Oh, I have paid for the bottle." [Hindi conversation about schools and colleges] [Hindi] The bhakti is all-inclusive. [explains Brahman, Paramātmā, Bhagavān in Hindi]

vadanti tat tattva-vidas
tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam
brahmeti paramātmeti
bhagavān iti śabdyate

[SB 1.2.11]

[Hindi] Brahmā-jñāna means... Just like sunlight. You understand sunlight. That does not mean that you know sun disc. But both of them are light.

Guest (9): The brahma-jñāna has got a limited jurisdiction.

Prabhupāda: It is these things that... This is the... Just like ordinary... [Hindi]

yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-
koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam
tad brahma niṣkalam anantam aśeṣa bhūtaṁ...

[Bs. 5.40]

Brahma niṣkalam anantam... [Hindi conversation]

Guest (9): Different stages? Are there different stages?

Prabhupāda: Different features. Different features. Just like Sūryaloka or Sūryadeva or Sūrya-raśmi. [Hindi]

Guest (9): I see.

Prabhupāda: [Hindi] Different stages. [Hindi]

Guest (9): You have to try to come in second arya[?].

Prabhupāda: Then second, paramātmā-jñāna. Then bhagavat-jñāna. [break]

Guest (9): [Hindi]

Prabhupāda: [Hindi] [break] [Hindi conversation] That is bhakti. That is the pure bhakti. [Hindi conversation] family, my [Hindi], so many responsibility, [Hindi].

Guest (9): It is very difficult to give up.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is difficult, but there is way.

Guest (9): There is some ceremony for that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is upādhi. [Hindi] ...I identify myself as Hindu. Yes. Then they would not have not accepted. They would have said, "We have got Christianity. Why should I accept your Hinduism?" [Hindi]

Guest (9): This sort of distinction was not also clear to us, but now, after hearing you this morning...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (9): ...and your ceremony [indistinct].

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, if you go anywhere, if you want to preach Hinduism, why they should be interested in Hinduism? They can hear some words. But we are not talking of Hinduism and Muhammadanism; we are talking on the science of God.

Guest (9): The true philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is God? What is the conception of God? Oh, they have accepted, there: "Yes, here it is right conception." Yes.

Guest (9): Go back to Godhead.

Prabhupāda: Back to Godhead.

Guest (9): Go back to Godhead. [conversation among Indians about BTG's] I distributed what I got.

Prabhupāda: No, I shall arrange to distribute. I am getting fifty thousand Back to Godheads. Fifty thousand. I shall distribute. [Hindi conversation]

[break] [Hindi] We haven't got to present Kṛṣṇa as Indian as Hindu. Kṛṣṇa is neither of them. Kṛṣṇa says, claims, that "Every living entity is My part and parcel. I am the seed-giving father." So therefore it has become successful. I never said that "You become a Hindu." "You accept Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and try to understand the philosophy." What business they have got to become Hindu? But they want to know what is God. Oh, that we have been confident.

Guest (9): They are accepting God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. [Hindi] Even if they are puzzled. Although Kṛṣṇa appeared in India.

Guest (9): We don't think that He belongs to particular place or [indistinct].

Prabhupāda: That's... They do not understand Kṛṣṇa. [Hindi conversation] Why step by step? If you have to accept Kṛṣṇa, why not immediately? That is intelligence.

Guest (9): But you should be...

Prabhupāda: There is no question of "should be." When Kṛṣṇa says, "I'll give you protection," why "should be"? You don't believe in Kṛṣṇa. He says, ahaṁ tvaṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣa [Bg. 18.66]. You are doubtful about Kṛṣṇa's capacity. That means you do not know Kṛṣṇa. Yes.

Guest (9): But in a part of the one form...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guest (9): But in a part of one form [indistinct].

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Guest (2): He means that is beyond his capacity to understand Him.

Prabhupāda: What is the difficulty? Kṛṣṇa says, "I am everything." Why don't you accept Him? That means you want to understand Kṛṣṇa in your own way. Why you are becoming intentionally unable?

Guest (9): No, believe Him as you are a servant and serve Him. Or you believe that you are mother to Him. Or you believe that you are [indistinct].

Prabhupāda: No, that is second. First of all surrender. Then what way you shall surrender, that is different thing, another stage, more confidential. First of all there is surrender. First of all you enter this house or this room. Then you ask, "How can I serve you?" That is different. First of all there is no surrender, or without surrender, full surrender, there is no entrance in Kṛṣṇa.

Guest (9): No entry.

Prabhupāda: No entry. Because those who revolted against Kṛṣṇa, those who wanted to become Kṛṣṇa by imitating Him, they are here in this material world. Icchā-dveṣa-samutthena sarge yānti parantapa [Bg. 7.27].

[Hindi] Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19], creation, that all the living entities who have come into this created world, they have revolted. They wanted to become Kṛṣṇa, to imitate Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they have given the chance, "All right, you become Kṛṣṇa. You do whatever you like. I will give you facility. You want to become Brahmā? All right, you become Brahmā. And you want to become the worm of stool? I will give you the facility."

So these living entities are rotating. Sometimes he is becoming Brahmā, sometimes becoming the worm of a stool, sometimes this, sometimes that. In this way he is changing body. This is material world. Or when he comes back again, back to Godhead, yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6]. Then you'll haven't got to come back. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9].

So we have to prepare for that position, how to go back to home, how to go back to Kṛṣṇa, and engage ourself in His service. Then the question of either as mother or friend or... That will be considered later on. First of all let us try how to enter kingdom of God. That is condition, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ [Bg. 18.66], that "You surrender unto Me fully, giving up all your other engagement. Then I take charge of you." Ahaṁ tvāṁ mokṣayiṣyāmi. Mokṣa is there. For a kṛṣṇa-bhakta is nothing, mokṣa, or liberation. He'll do it. He'll look after it.

Guest (9): Thank you very much.

Prabhupāda: [aside:] Ready? All right. [end]