[devotees chanting japa]
Prabhupāda: So, what is next? We are begin? Or there is ārati?
Devotee: Yes, we have [indistinct]. Get the beads?
Prabhupāda: Yes. [japa]
[Viṣṇujana leads kīrtana] [prema-dhvani]
First of all, you are... Mantra? Oh, yes. [japa]
Dayānanda: Repeat the mantra three times with water, taking water, then wash.
oṁ apavitraḥ pavitro vā
sarvāvasthāṁ gato 'pi vā
yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣaṁ
sa bahyābhyantaraḥ śuciḥ
śrī-viṣṇu śrī-viṣṇu śrī-viṣṇu
[devotees repeat each word]
[break] ....that is to say whether one is in liberated platform or whether one is in the animal platform, the hellish platform, that one is a denizen of the lower planets, in any condition of life, one can..., if one simply remembers the lotus-eyed one, or Viṣṇu, Kṛṣṇa, then one becomes purified, or śuci, internally or externally. And externally. Internally and externally. So this mantra is enjoining that you simply remember the lotus-eyed one, simply remember Viṣṇu, then we can be come purified, we can become śuci.
So this process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is that purification process. This process is that process whereby we can remember that lotus-eyed one, or by which we can become Kṛṣṇa conscious, we can become conscious of that lotus-eyed one, we can remember that lotus-eyed one, twenty-four hours a day. We are trying..., we expand all of our energies to become Kṛṣṇa conscious.
So this initiation process is the beginning of that process to become purified. To begin to remember God, to remember Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, this initiation process is the initial step and then after this initial step then there is another step the second initiation.
One receives second initiation after one is serious in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness process. One is becoming a little purified so this second initiation is given and then this means that the individual is becoming first-class man. He is becoming purified, he is living up to human standard. The human platform, this human form of life is simply meant for cultivating Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is simply meant for purification.
So in this day and age there is no qualification, no birth right qualification for achieving this platform of life, for becoming first-class man. The fifth class man can become first-class man and if the first-class man does not take up this Kṛṣṇa consciousness then he becomes fifth class man. So there are so many fifth class men. There is a practical example, there are so many fifth class men and women who are becoming first-class simply by execution of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
So here we have a very nice example in this day and age practically the whole world, the whole population of this earthly planet is fifth class men. So simply by initiating this process and executing Kṛṣṇa consciousness, cultivating remembrance of the lotus eyed one Viṣṇu and then one becomes purified up to the platform of first-class men and this is for the benefit of all humanity. This is not simply benefiting all humanity, it is benefiting all living entities everywhere on all planets. So this is the real welfare work, this work is being done to the welfare of everyone.
So simply we have to follow the instructions of the spiritual master. This is the first, this is the first step in Kṛṣṇa consciousness—is to first accept the spiritual master and then become initiated by the spiritual master. This is the first and second step, the first injunction is given. So this is being performed at this time, this this acceptance of the spiritual master means to accept and to serve faithfully throughout one's life the spiritual master. To never deviate from complete acceptance of the spiritual master. One should not think otherwise.
That is blaspheming the Lord's devotees. One should... This is a... Greatest offence, one should not, should never blaspheme the Lord's devotees. To blaspheme the Lord's devotees is most. Is the severest offence because Kṛṣṇa does not forgive this offence. Kṛṣṇa is always protecting the devotees in this particular instance we can see Kṛṣṇa, Lord Nṛsiṁha comes and bifurcates the demon Hiraṇyakaśipu and He is always protecting His devotee, Prahlāda Mahārāja. Simply by remembering, we can... Simply by remembering the Lord. Prahlāda Mahārāja is always remembering Viṣṇu Kṛṣṇa.
So blaspheming the Lord's devotee. The only way one can be forgiven of this heinous offense is by a pure devotee of the Lord himself. "So considering the Lord and the demigods on the same level or..."
Prabhupāda: In the śāstra it is said that if you commit some offense to Kṛṣṇa, He excuses, but if you commit offense to His devotee, He never excuses. Personal offense to Kṛṣṇa can be excused by Kṛṣṇa. He is so merciful. That... The Durvāsā Muni, he offended Mahārāja Ambarīṣa, and he went up... He was so powerful that he went to Viṣṇuloka to see Viṣṇu for being protected, because the sudarśana cakra was after him.
So Viṣṇu said, "Oh, this is beyond My power. I cannot excuse you." Yes. "You have to go to Ambarīṣa Mahārāja and ask his pardon. Otherwise there is no excuse." So that Durvāsā Muni, he was a great yogī and brāhmaṇa, and he was very proud, so he came back and fell down on the feet of Ambarīṣa Mahārāja. Then he was excused. You see?
Ambarīṣa Mahārāja was a kṣatriya, a king. He was neither yogī, but he was a great devotee. So this yogī, Durvāsā Muni, he wanted to supersede him, that "He is ordinary kṣatriya king, and because he is advertised that he is a devotee, I shall teach him some lesson." So that was the quarrel between the... The king was very nice, he never picked up quarrel, but this old man picked up quarrel, and he was chastised by Viṣṇu like that. Yes.
Dayānanda: "...considering the Lord and the demigods on the same level or to understand that there are many Gods." There is only one God...
Prabhupāda: This is a misconception that, especially in your country, in the Western countries, it is advertised that the Hindus have many Gods. Only Hindu. We are not concerned with the Hindu-Muslim; we are concerned with Kṛṣṇa. So actually in the Vedas accepted one God. Eka brahma dvitīya nāsti. There is no second. God cannot be two. God is one. It is a misconception there are many Gods.
There are Māyāvādī philosophers, they say that "You worship any demigod. It is the same thing." They misinterpret the Bhagavad-gītā śloka, ye yathā māṁ prapadyante [Bg. 4.11]: "You can worship Me in any way." The Māyāvādī philosophers, there is a great missionary activities in India. They have got their branch here also. They propagate that "You may worship any demigod—Goddess Kali or this or that. Everything is all right." No. God is one, and that is Kṛṣṇa.
Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān [SB 1.3.28]. Even incarnation of God, they are part and parcel. They are bigger part. Just like we are, living entities, we are also part and parcel, viṣṇu-tattva, they are also part and parcel, but nobody can excel Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. That is the verdict. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. There are so many evidences Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme. And Kṛṣṇa Himself says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nāsti: "There is no more superior than Me," in the Bhagavad-gītā. So God is one, and that is Kṛṣṇa.
Dayānanda: "Neglecting the orders of the spiritual master." At first we must accept a spiritual master, and then we must become initiated by the spiritual master. So to neglect the orders of the spiritual master...
Prabhupāda: Unless one is prepared that "I am accepting somebody as my spiritual master. I must accept whatever he says," if there is any doubt, that "I cannot accept his words verbatim," then one should not accept him as spiritual master. That is hypocrisy. One must be first of all convinced. Therefore it is the duty of the spiritual master and the disciple to associate—that is the injunction of Sanātana Gosvāmī—for some time, and both of them should study. The disciple should study, "Whether I can accept this saintly person as my spiritual master." And spiritual master also will see, "Whether I can accept this boy, this person, as my disciple." That is the way.
But sometimes the time is reduced. That doesn't matter. But the principle is this, that before accepting a spiritual master you can examine him, you can scrutinize him, but not after him, after accepting. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna was talking with Kṛṣṇa just like friend, on equal level. But when he saw that the solution is not yet done, then he surrendered unto Him: śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam [Bg. 2.7].
So after accepting as spiritual master there was no talking on the equal level. But the point where he could not understand, he put some question. Just like when He was preaching..., teaching him about the yoga system, so the yoga system is controlling the mind. So Kṛṣṇa..., Arjuna flatly said, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, it is very difficult for me." Cañcalaṁ hi manaḥ kṛṣṇa pramāthi balavad dṛḍham [Bg. 6.34]: "Oh, it is not possible. You are teaching me this haṭha-yoga system by exercising, controlling the mind. It is not possible for me."
So that was not an important thing, to practice yoga. One who practices this Kṛṣṇa consciousness yoga... Then Kṛṣṇa assured him, "It doesn't matter. You practice. If you like, you can practice. But real yogī is he..." He explained,
yoginām api sarveṣāṁ
śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ
sa me yuktatamo...
"Arjuna, that's all right. If you cannot practice this yoga system, there is no harm. But the first-class yogī is he who is always keeping Me in his heart," thinking of Kṛṣṇa. He is first class. So that is bhakti-yoga.
Dayānanda: "Interpreting the holy... Minimizing the authority of scriptures or Vedas." The authority of scriptures, or Vedas, are also absolute. This is the literary incarnation of the Lord. The Vedas or the scriptures are literary incarnation of the Lord.
Prabhupāda: The example is the same: just like the conchshell. In the Vedic injunction is that you should not touch dead animal's bone. If you touch, you become impure. But Vedas say the conchshell is pure. So that is being practically observed. We followers of the Vedic injunction, we are using conchshell in the Deity room because Vedas says it is pure. You cannot argue, "Oh, one place you said that conchshell..., the bone is impure. Oh, here I can show you the book. You have said like that." Oh, that nonsense will not do. Whatever is said is all right. You have to accept that. Even it is contradictory, you have to accept.
That is called no interpretation. That is wanted. There is meaning, but through your brain at the present moment you cannot understand. That is another thing. But you cannot say like that: "Oh, one place you have said this conch, yes, bone of an animal is impure, and now you are saying the conchshell is pure. It is contradictory." So that will not do. Therefore it is said you cannot interpret in that way. That is offense. Then you will not be able to make progress. Yes.
Dayānanda: The next is "Interpreting the holy name of God."
This holy name of God Kṛṣṇa, this name is absolute. Kṛṣṇa is the same as His name, His form, His pastimes, His paraphernalia and so therefore this holy name of God has the same potency as Kṛṣṇa Himself. And it says in the Nārada Pañcarātra that God is dancing on the tongue, if we just chant or sing this name Kṛṣṇa then Kṛṣṇa is dancing on the tongue. So one cannot interpret the holy name of God.
"Committing sin on the strength of chanting." This chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa wipes away the reaction of past sinful activities and destroys all of the effects of impious activities. So if one commits sin on the strength of such chanting, if one commits some impious activity and thinks, "Oh yes simply by chanting then the bad effects will be wiped away and this will be nullified," now this is not bona-fide. This is a great offence, simply we must commit no sin. We must chant and we become purified. The idea is to become purified and not to become contaminated and remain in a contaminated situation.
"Instructing the glories of the Lord's name to the unfaithful." One must try and discriminate between four classes of person. The Supreme Person, the devotees, the innocent and the demons. One does not instruct the glories of the Lord's name to the unfaithful, to the demons. The demons are praetorian, in another age the demons are for killing but in this age 99% of the population are demons, so it is not possible, if the..
Prabhupāda: If you kill them, then there will be no population. [laughter] There will be nobody to pay tax. Yes.
Dayānanda: So as much as possible, we must try to instruct the innocent and remain aloof from the demons.
"Comparing the holy name with material piety." This holy name is the same as the Lord himself. Simply by vibration of this transcendental sound Kṛṣṇa this is elevating one to the platform of pure association of the Lord. So this is not to be confused with material piety. Simply because it may have some effect of wiping away the past sinful reactions.
Prabhupāda: Actual aim of spiritual life—to come to the stage of loving God. That is real spiritual life. If one wants to take to spiritual life for some other gain, that is not... That is offense, that "I will chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. So my income is now one thousand dollar; it will be three thousand dollar." [chuckles] Not like that. It may be reduced [laughter] sometime. [laughs] Just like our Dayānanda is. His income is now reduced by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, but he is not giving up. That is wanted. You see?
Sometimes it is found that in incidents you will find in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, yasyānugṛhṇāmi hariṣye tad... [SB 10.88.8] Therefore sometimes people do not come to worship, because generally they say, "The Viṣṇu worship, or Vaiṣṇavas, they are generally poor. So I don't want to be poor." [laughs] Yes. I was thinking like that. [laughter]
When my Guru Mahārāja ordered me... When I was manager in Bose's laboratory, so he ordered me. So I thought, "Oh, I cannot do this. I cannot accept this sannyāsa." But he was so kind, and he is so kind still. Then he forced me, that "You must do it," taking..., pulling my ear, he brought me to this life. In the beginning I was not willing. So it is his causeless mercy upon me. That I can understand now. I can understand now how much I have been relieved by accepting this life. So sometimes we find that our income is reduced.
There is a story—that's very interesting—that one doctor, medical man, came to a gentleman's house, and there were two patients: the lady, the wife of that gentleman, and the maidservant. So the doctor examined and informed to the proprietor that "Your wife's fever is only 100. That's not very... But your maidservant's fever is 104. So she has to be taken little care of." So when the wife heard, she...
[break] So we want like that. This material civilization is like that, to increase the temperature to 108 and then atom bomb fall. You see? That is going on. We should not... Yāvad artha-prayojanam. We should not try for increasing simply the material comforts. No. That is not our business. That is 108 degree. Then death. But yāvad artha-vinirṇayam. As far as we want, we must take, that much, not more than that. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā [Īśo mantra 1], the same verse. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. Whatever prasādam you are offered by the grace of the Lord, you accept. Don't take anything more. That is our motto.
Dayānanda: "To become inattentive while chanting the holy name." One must remain attentive.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is very important. When you will chant, you'll hear also. Then your attention will be there. And you are chanting and you are thinking something else, oh, that is also another offense. You should be careful. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare. If you cannot hear, then you will chant loudly, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. So you must hear. That is wanted. Otherwise you will be inattentive. That is offense.
Dayānanda: "Attachment to material things in spite of chanting the holy name."
Prabhupāda: Yes. That attachment means by chanting holy name we have to decrease the fever. But if we increase the fever, attachment... Material attachment means increasing the fever. And we are trying to detach from the, because our conditioned life is continuing because we are so much attached to the materialistic way of life. So by the by, as we chant, we shall try ourself. That means simple life. Unnecessarily we should not increase our demands of life. Then it will be nice.
Go on. Finish.
Dayānanda: [devotees repeating] Vande aham... [break]
Prabhupāda: I will give. So Dr. Rao, your spiritual name is Rāmānanda. Yes. This Rāmānanda, he was also Rāya, Rāmānanda Rāya, a great devotee of Lord Caitanya and governor of Madras. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu picked up a very important persons, the six Gosvāmīs, Rāmānanda Rāya, Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, like that, eight or ten direct disciples. And later on they preached the whole thing.
In the Bhagavad-gītā there is a verse, yad yad ācarati śreṣṭha itaras tad anuvartate [Bg. 3.21]. If a śreṣṭha, if an important man, acts in some way, others follow. That is natural. So by the grace of Lord Caitanya we are meeting, and you have got great responsibility, because...
You came here to take your doctorate degree. That's very nice. When one of my Godbrothers went to England during my Guru Mahārāja's time, so Lady Willingdon, she challenged that Godbrother that "Your men from India, they come here, and we give them some degree, and they become big men there. So what you have got to teach us?" That was her challenge.
Actually, that has become the mentality of Indians at the present moment, that "One has to go to the foreign countries, take some technological degree and then impart the knowledge in India. Then we become big... And let us sacrifice our own culture." That is the mentality now. So your example... You have got by the grace of Lord some foreign degrees.
If you present this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in India, many persons will follow. So you think in that way and try to understand our philosophy. You are very nice boy. And India's condition is not very satisfactory at the present moment. They are misled. So I came here with that purpose also, that "This movement I cannot start. They will not accept. But if I go to America, if the Americans accept and they preach, then they will accept."
So that position has somehow or other come. So you together... It is not meant for either for American or Indian; it is meant for the whole human society. They are suffering grievously for want of this consciousness. So every one of us has got a great duty to broadcast this knowledge of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Bhagavad-gītā...
Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is based on Bhagavad-gītā. It is very widely read all over the world. Simply the rascals, they have misinterpreted. Now we have to give the right interpretation and present what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is our duty.
So I know that you'll soon return to India, so Lord Caitanya and Lord Kṛṣṇa is giving you a great responsibility. Try to serve Them to your best capacity. Thank you. So this is your chant...? Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
So next, what is your name?
Prabhupāda: Georgina. So your spiritual name is Gunamayī. Gunamayī... Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī [Bg. 7.14]. Guṇamayī is the name of the energy of Lord. Woman is the energy of man. Similarly, we are all energies. A man works very hard, being energized by his wife or mother. That is the history of the whole world.
Any big man, behind that big man is a woman, either mother or wife, especially. You have heard the name of Vidya-sagara Pandit. The background was his mother. Gandhi, the background was his mother. Now, this Lord Willingdon, the background was his wife. So woman has got a very responsible duty, to energize man with Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
So you are young girl. I am very happy that you have come to this. Try to execute this energy. That will be your duty. You know what are the restrictions?
Guṇamayī: No meat-eating, no illicit sex, no intoxication [indistinct].
Prabhupāda: Thank you. So take your... So what is your name?
Guṇamayī: Erm... Erm...
Prabhupāda: I asked this, what is your name? Georgina?
Prabhupāda: No, now what is your spiritual name? Immediately forgot? [laughter] Guṇamayī. Guṇamayī. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. Guṇamayī means qualities, full of qualities. So this material nature is..., has got three qualities: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. This is also guṇamayī. And the spiritual nature also has got three qualities—sandhinī, saṁvit and... What is called, other?
Prabhupāda: Ahlādinī, yes. Sandhinī, saṁvit and ahlādinī. So both of them are guṇamayī. The spiritual nature is horrible for the conditioned soul, but she is not horrible for Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, mama māyā, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā [Bg. 7.14]. So everyone Kṛṣṇa's..., related with Kṛṣṇa is not..., he or she is not horrible.
Just like a police department is horrible for the criminals and not for the president. The president is not afraid of the police department, because the police department is under his control. Similarly, this material nature with three qualities, sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, it is horrible for the conditioned soul.
Therefore, if anyone surrenders to Kṛṣṇa—mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti [Bg. 7.14]—immediately he overcomes the horrible feature of this material nature. Otherwise, if one does not come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if one does not surrender to Kṛṣṇa, this material nature is horrible.
So therefore in both ways the spiritual nature or the material nature, they are guṇamayī. And the difference is that when one is conditioned, he is under the material nature guṇamayī, and when he is liberated, he is under the spiritual nature guṇamayī. But both of them are guṇamayī.
So your name is Holly? Eh? Yes. So your spiritual name is Herā-pañcamī. Herā-pañcamī is the auspicious energy of Jagannātha Svāmī. Yes. So you worship Jagannātha Svāmī very nicely.
So now you can... So? There is no dakṣiṇā? Ghee?
Devotee: Yes, yes. We have dakṣiṇā.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. So who will keep this? You give? Now perform the yajña and let us finish. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtanaiḥ prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ [SB 11.5.32]. Real yajña is Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. [japa]
[continuation of fire sacrifice mantras] [japa]
[kīrtana] [prema-dhvani] [end]