[in car]
Rāmeśvara: ...so he wanted to come and be here when you see the movie.
Prabhupāda: [sings] Śrī kṛṣṇa caitanya prabhu, dayā koro more...
Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, sometime today the new copies of the second volume of Seventh Canto are coming from the printer today. That's the volume with the section about Lord Nṛsiṁha-deva killing Hiraṇyakaśipu and Prahlāda's prayers.
Prabhupāda: Ah.
Hṛdayānanda: Prabhupāda was lecturing on that in Māyāpur.
Rāmeśvara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Hṛdayānanda: In Māyāpur you were lecturing on the prayers.
Rāmeśvara: So that volume is coming today.
Prabhupāda: [break] ...culture and civilization is being introduced by Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement for the benefit of the whole human society. The modern civilization is not civilization. Mūḍhā nābhijānāti mām eva param avyayam [Bg. 7.25]. Ninety-nine percent or 99.9 percent people do not believe in the transmigration of the soul. Is it not?
Rāmeśvara: In India people believe.
Prabhupāda: No, India believes. India have no authority.
Hṛdayānanda: I think now there is... People are becoming more interested in this theory. They say "theory." I think there is more interest now. I'm talking to common people. They're...
Prabhupāda: So if there is next life---they believe---then what they are doing for the next life?
Rāmeśvara: The Christians only believe in one life, and after that one life you either go to heaven or to hell forever.
Hṛdayānanda: For that reason people have rejected Christianity, because they cannot explain, for example, why a child is being killed. He's innocent. But by our philosophy it can be explained. For that, people are..., intelligent people...
Prabhupāda: Christian religion is speculation. All these philosophers, talking on Christian religion, speculating. No clear idea.
Hari-śauri: These Church fathers that we've just done on the philosophy book, they are simply speculating about what was in the original Bible.
Prabhupāda: No clear conception, scientific idea. Therefore educated persons, they are not interested. "God, give us daily bread." They will say, "Why we shall go to church for begging bread? We can manufacture it, large quantity." [laughs] Why they should go? Formality = "God, give us our daily bread." "Just open a big factory and eat as much bread as we like. Why should we go to God?" [break] ...Jawaharlal Nehru, he took this view, that "For economic development why should you go to the temple, ask this demigod, that demigod, 'Give me this. Give me this'? Develop industry and get money to enjoy." That is his view. [break] ...description of God in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam begins, janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ sva-rāṭ [SB 1.1.1]. This is God, the origin of everything. Who is there who can challenge this explanation, "The origin of everything"? Now, what is that origin? Whether it is matter or senscient? No. Janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś ca abhijñaḥ [SB 1.1.1]. He knows everything. Therefore He's a person. Otherwise, how He can be origin of everything? Anvayād itarataś ca. Suppose I... If I have manufactured this car, then I know every nook and corner of this car, how I have manufactured. One who has manufactured, he knows how it is working, every minute feature. Even an expert driver, he knows how many parts are there, which part is... Anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ. If He's abhijñaḥ, if He's completely cognizant of every part of the whole universe, then He is creator.
Prabhupāda: All Santa Monica city?
Hṛdayānanda: Yes. [break] Such a clear day.
Prabhupāda: Clear? That is not clear. So many clouds.
Hṛdayānanda: I mean for visibility, for seeing.
Rāmeśvara: He says you can see the clouds.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Hari-śauri: There's no smog.
Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we were painting one painting for the last volume of Seventh Canto which shows that Kṛṣṇa is in the heart of all living entities. Now, the question came up whether Kṛṣṇa... Since Kṛṣṇa is inside every atom, are there living entities in every atom? So I said that you had already answered that, that Kṛṣṇa is never alone, so there must be some living entity within the atom. So then the question was = Is this atom one of the bodies, just like the human body, and then gradually that living entity gets a higher body, higher body, or does he always remain inside the atom?
Prabhupāda: Body does not develop. He changes body. Why don't you understand this?
Rāmeśvara: He changes body.
Prabhupāda: The motorcar does not develop. I change this motorcar to another.
Rāmeśvara: But that's the question.
Prabhupāda: That is Darwin's theory. Motorcar is not developing to big motorcar. That is nonsense. Motorcar is motorcar, but I can change from this car to that car.
Hari-śauri: Yes, that's what he was wondering, whether the spirit soul leaves the atom to take another higher body.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is always... Transmigration means always going on, changing, changing.
Rāmeśvara: Is that counted as one of the 8,400,000 species? Is the atom counted among the different species?
Prabhupāda: Atom is not manifested. May be one of the species, but the total is 8,400,000. What is the difference between the small atom and this body? The same thing, material. It's very small; it is a little bigger. That's all. And similarly, the universe is still bigger. After all, it is matter. [break] ...prakṛti. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham [Bs. 5.35]. What is this? He's standing on election? [break]
Rāmeśvara: It is written in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta that when Lord Caitanya entered this universe, the entire universe was blessed, or benefited. So I'm wondering how Lord Caitanya's movement is going on on other planets other than this planet. Is there some organized saṅkīrtana?
Prabhupāda: Yes. How other planetary system is going on, you do not know, but we can guess it is going on like this. Anumāna. Pratyakṣa, anumāna. One thing is direct perception, another by guessing. Pratyakṣa anumāna and śabda and śruti, aitihya. There are so many evidences. Harer nāma harer nāma [Cc. Ādi 17.21]. [sings] Śrī kṛṣṇa caitanya prabhu...
Rāmeśvara: Devotees once told me you said that the demigods like this movement very much so that they're standing in line to take their birth in the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They like to come here on this planet. Just like you Kṛṣṇa conscious men, you are very much enthusiastic to go to India. India has no material attraction, but why our men wanted to go to India in spite of so many difficulties? Similarly, in the higher planet, heavenly planet, they are so much engrossed with material happiness that there is no facility. But here there is facility, in this earth, Bhūrloka. Bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayāpahṛta-cetasām [Bg. 2.44]. One who is too much attached to material convenience and everything, they have no opportunity for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. [break]
Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you wrote that we don't have to be concerned that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will deliver the whole world, because it will fill up again. Even if we can bring everyone back to Godhead, it will just be filled up again with more conditioned souls.
Prabhupāda: That means there are so many conditioned souls, one after another, coming. And the conditioned souls are the few of the whole living entities. Just imagine what is the total. [laughs]
Rāmeśvara: It can't be imagined.
Prabhupāda: And majority in the spiritual world, and one fourth, minority, is here in so many innumerable universes.
Rāmeśvara: There are also many spirit souls in the Brahman effulgence...
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Rāmeśvara: The spiritual sky.
Prabhupāda: Full of these souls. They have no forms. Just like sun. Sunshine means small illuminating sparks. [break] [out of car:] Flowers, they are good medicine for dysentery. [break]
Hṛdayānanda: ...surrounded by mountains, but normally the air is so dirty, it's not possible to see them, but today it's so clear.
Prabhupāda: [break] ...bluff subject.
Rāmeśvara: The edge of the cliff, there may be some rockslide.
Hari-śauri: Just like the path used to go there, but it fell through.
Prabhupāda: The path may slide? That is a warning?
Hari-śauri: They put that warning there so that no one can sue the city authorities if someone is killed if the cliff falls apart.
Prabhupāda: Therefore not many people come here. [break] ...animal kingdom, by nature's arrangement, the couple, one male and one female, is fixed up, fixed up, this one female, one male. But amongst the monkeys, dogs and jackals, there is no fixed up.
Hari-śauri: Anything that comes along.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore in the human society, a man and woman not fixed up, they are monkeys, jackals and dogs. By marriage it is fixed up, but if they do not fix up, they are compared with the jackals, dogs and monkeys.
Hari-śauri: Hogs as well?
Prabhupāda: Hmm? Hogs also like.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: From the material point of view people cannot see the purpose of accepting responsibility.
Prabhupāda: I do not follow. What is this?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, from the spiritual point of view, we know that if we're not responsible, then we have to suffer great consequences according to our actions. From the material point of view, though, people can live an irresponsible life, and they have some earnings they feel that they can enjoy, what is the need for morality?
Prabhupāda: Then what is a responsible life? Hmm?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, their whole plan is to avoid responsibility.
Prabhupāda: That is sinful. As soon as you irresponsible, you are sinful. [break] ...soon as you forget the simple truth that you are servant of God, you are irresponsible. Now your suffering begins. [break] ...kṛṣṇa-bahirmukha hañā bhoga vāñchā kare, nikaṭa-stha māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare [Prema-vivarta]. Just like as citizen of your state, you have to abide by the laws of the state. As soon as you disobey, you are irresponsible. That's all. You suffer. Good citizen means who abides by the laws of the state. And as soon as you break it, immediately you are irresponsible and you must be punished.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Practically, though, without God consciousness, isn't it that people see that whether they are moral or not moral, they still suffer?
Prabhupāda: Yes. This material world is meant for suffering. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. That is the description in the Bhagavad-gītā. This is a place for suffering. And that is also temporary. You cannot make adjustment = "Never mind, it is suffering; I shall remain here." No, that also will not be allowed. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15].
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In the marriage ceremonies that they have, they make vow before God that "Until death do us part, we will not separate." But so many divorces are there.
Prabhupāda: That is suffering.
Rāmeśvara: If a man can have affair with many different women, he's considered fortunate. It is his success.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He's on the front page of all the magazines.
Hari-śauri: "Bachelor daddy."
Prabhupāda: Therefore they want to become gopīs. That is the tendency, sahajiyā.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Like transcendental hippie life.
Prabhupāda: [laughs] Yes.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No responsibility.
Prabhupāda: Other relationship of Kṛṣṇa rejected, take, jump over the gopīs' relationship. This is the meaning. [break] ...this line? Is it not? So as many lines, that means so many years. [break]
Hari-śauri: ...cut inside the tree, there's circles, and for each circle that means one year. That's what they say, anyway.
Prabhupāda: Island separate?
Mahendra: That's an island, Śrīla Prabhupāda, yes. Santa Catalina island. It's a very big tourist resort.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Mahendra: It's a big tourist place. We were just discussing how it would be nice to send saṅkīrtana party there for book distribution.
Gopavṛndapāla: We already do that every weekend. [break]
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...problems. It seems that there are so many social problems in the world today that by patchwork nothing can, er, can't hope to come of anything good.
Prabhupāda: Because they do not know what is the aim of life. [break] ...one center. With center, you can draw so many circles, big or small; they will not overlap. But if you have got different center, it will overlap. Your circle will come upon me; my circle will go upon... So there is svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. They do not know the central point is Kṛṣṇa.
Rāmeśvara: People sometimes criticize us that if our movement becomes very large and everyone chants Hare Kṛṣṇa, then no one will want to become a doctor or technician, and everything will fall to hell.
Prabhupāda: Why don't you say if your movement goes on, there will be no need of doctor? [laughter]
Kīrtirāja: No lawyers.
Prabhupāda: No need. Simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Bās. That's all.
Devotee: No one to run the factories?
Prabhupāda: No, no need. These are anarthas, unnecessary things. So in the Bhāgavata, anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje [SB 1.7.6]. When there is bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje, all these anarthas useless. Anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. People may not misunderstand that we don't want other things. We want everything, but we want central point, Kṛṣṇa.
[break] [in car]
...Bharati, with whom you had some talks, he does not speak anymore?
Hṛdayānanda: We have not heard anything.
Hari-śauri: He tries to cause a disturbance, though, whenever he can. I was told by one of the boys in the Library Party that he's prevented a lot of standing orders being taken by speaking with professors and condemning our movement.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Hari-śauri: He's still creating a disturbance.
Prabhupāda: Cancelling standing orders?
Hari-śauri: They've actually taken standing orders and then had them cancelled because of this man.
Rāmeśvara: Not so much.
Hari-śauri: Not so much, but he's doing it when he can. [break]
Rāmeśvara: ...surprised that you have written so many books. They cannot understand how you could write so much. They wonder whether you were a great Sanskrit scholar for many years, so they try to guess. They just can't imagine anyone writing so much.
Prabhupāda: We are exceeding all material authors except Vyāsadeva.
Rāmeśvara: Vyāsadeva.
Prabhupāda: One book, seventeen volumes, Caitanya-caritāmṛta. That is also so many, our Godbrothers, attempted. Everyone is...
Hari-śauri: Have any of your Godbrothers translated anything?
Prabhupāda: They died half-way finished.
Hari-śauri: Śrīdhara Mahārāja never did anything?
Rāmeśvara: They wonder where you have made the time to study so much about ancient Indian culture that you could write so much. They cannot understand that. They read... There is a biography of Your Divine Grace in the Bhāgavatam that mentions different things, and they just can't understand how you could know so much. It is beyond material...
Prabhupāda: One young man in Tokyo or some airport, very nice young man, he came. I was sitting. "Swāmījī, can I talk with you?" "Yes." So, "I have seen your photograph. Where you have got so much vast knowledge?" [laughs] And I..., "It is not my knowledge; it is Vyāsadeva's knowledge." So his first question was, intelligent boy.
Hari-śauri: He'd obviously read fair amounts of your books.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Here is a house, four-story?
Hari-śauri: That one's three-story.
Prabhupāda: Three? And down, motor garage.
Hari-śauri: Right.
Rāmeśvara: That is the biggest, but I discussed with Karāndhara, and he said they will not give permission for more than two stories. He has already inquired.
Prabhupāda: Why?
Rāmeśvara: They have some crazy reason. They make very strict laws regarding housing. It is a problem everywhere in the United States, so many things you have to comply with. Just like in Dallas there were so many things they wanted us to do for housing. [end]