Prabhupāda: ...consciousness, there is one very nice cause. The cause is, the Western people, they have no attachment for wife. Is it not a fact?
Prabhupāda: They do not care for the wife.
Pṛthu-putra: They do not care for family attachment in general.
Akṣayānanda: That vairāgya is due to frustration.
Prabhupāda: Whatever the cause...
Prabhupāda: The vairāgya is there. That is...
Akṣayānanda: Then you came and gave the missing link. You gave the Kṛṣṇa consciousness itself.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Vairāgya means that there must be another engagement. Then life is successful, with another spiritual engagement.
Akṣayānanda: That you have supplied.
Prabhupāda: That I have studied.
Akṣayānanda: You must have known that before you went to the West.
Prabhupāda: No, it was Kṛṣṇa's arrangement. Kṛṣṇa wanted to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the Western countries, so He gave me the chance to take the credit, that's all. [laughter] It is Kṛṣṇa's arrangement. But He liked that one of His devotee may take the credit. That's all. Nimitta-mātraṁ bhava savyasācin [Bg. 11.33]. Kṛṣṇa said to Arjuna that "I have already killed them. They are not returning, either you fight or not fight, but you can take the credit." So it was arrangement of Kṛṣṇa that Western countries should now have this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And He wanted to give the credit to His poor servant. That's all. Kṛṣṇa likes that. He does everything, but He gives credit to His [chuckling] poor servant. That is my... Vairāgya. The whole process is how to achieve vairāgya. Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ, janayaty āśu vairāgyam... [SB 1.2.7].
Pṛthu-putra: Jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam.
Prabhupāda: ...jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam. That was automatic. And the bhakti-yoga means vairāgya-yoga. Vairāgya-yogaṁ nija-bhak... Vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yogam [Cc. Madhya 6.254]. So anyway, you have got the right thing. Now make it perfect. Satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ [Bg. 9.14]. With great vow and endeavor, kīrtana should go on. Then it is perfect. There is no difficulty. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam [Bg. 10.10]. The kīrtana is bhajana. So if you are engaged satatam in kīrtana, then you are safe. Māyā's father will not be able to touch. In India as soon as you say, "You give up your family life," immediately he becomes morose. The family attachment, especially the wife's attachment, is very, very strong. And śāstra says if one can give up this attachment of wife, then he can conquer Kṛṣṇa. It is said. He can conquer Kṛṣṇa. Simply... Eh?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There's a ditch here.
Devotee (1): There's a place to walk, though, on the left-hand side.
Akṣayānanda: Walking place on the left. [break] ...from his fallible soldiers.
Akṣayānanda: Fallible soldiers.
Prabhupāda: Fallible soldier? Yes.
Akṣayānanda: Sometimes I say to young boys, "You are seeking protection from your parents in your childhood, and then, when you grow old or when you grow older, they will want protection from you, because they will become old and feeble. So where is the protection? There is actually no protection." And everyone can easily understand that.
Prabhupāda: Protection is ultimately Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: It is all false thought that "He is giving me protection. He is giving me..."
Akṣayānanda: Yes. And the same person who is giving me protection, later he will ask me for protection, and then I will ask somebody else...
Prabhupāda: No, no, even when the father-mother is supposed to give protection, that is also not right conclusion. Otherwise there are so many fathers and mothers who is giving protection to his children. The father-mother, when the child is sick, the father-mother gives all---one who has got means---best medicine, best medical treatment, but the child dies. Where is the protection?
Akṣayānanda: Yes. Even that is...
Prabhupāda: It is not possible.
Akṣayānanda: So there's actually no protection in any case.
Prabhupāda: Somebody was... Some bird was killed here?
Akṣayānanda: Yes, it appears to be. [break] Sometimes we see a big house and at least two or three generations are all living together, same two or three families---his mother, his...
Prabhupāda: That is joint family, yes.
Akṣayānanda: Yes, joint families. And because of that, the attachment is very strong, it appears.
Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda? After the Battle of Kurukṣetra there were many men killed. How were all the young people and the women protected after so many millions of men were killed?
Prabhupāda: What do you mean by protection?
Devotee (2): Well, I mean like Arjuna was arguing that...
Prabhupāda: That was also... That was condemned.
Akṣayānanda: Yes, that argument was not accepted.
Prabhupāda: That argument was not accepted by Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee (2): But I mean, then how...
Prabhupāda: He proved that "You are a rascal. One who puts this argument, he's a rascal."
Akṣayānanda: That was just an excuse to avoid fighting.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa clearly chastised him, that "You are talking like a fool." Eh? Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādān [Bg. 2.11] = "Talking like a very learned man, but you are a fool. No learned man speaks like that."
Prabhupāda: Why they have kept this nice road within this forest? What is the idea?
Hari-śauri: There's some village on the other side?
Akṣayānanda: I don't know.
Prabhupāda: No, for village the government is not going to keep such nice road. This is government department, forest department. The government policy is to develop these places for industry in future. This industry is the cause of falldown of the human society---industry. So the reaction is... The industry, two things required---four things required = land, labor, capital and organization. So now the industry is going on, and the capitalists and labor, there is fight. The laborers, they are finding out that "We are working. Why the capitalists will take the profit?" This is communism. Is it not?
Prabhupāda: So the Communists, they are thinking, "By changing the hand, things will improve." But they do not know that very industry is the cause of falldown. They're simply trying to change the hand. The principle should go on, industry; only the proposal is that the capitalists should give up and the workers should take it.
Devotee (2): Which way is India headed towards? The capitalists or the Communists?
Prabhupāda: India has no..., had no such ideas. They are borrowing ideas. India's idea is self-realization. Live very simple life---brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. The brāhmaṇas, they are living simple life, becoming very learned scholar, pure character, advanced in spiritual life---one class, ideal. And kṣatriyas, they are supposed to be the king. They distribute the land on nominal taxation, and the vaiśyas utilize the land for cultivation and cow-keeping. And the śūdras, they are engaged as weaver, blacksmith, goldsmith, mean other necessities of life. In this way the whole society is simplified, and the central point is how to become advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness by cooperation. This is India's civilization. There is no question of industry. Ugra-karma. It has been condemned in the Bhagavad-gītā as ugra-karma, laboring very hard for livelihood. This industry means engage the poor worker class to work very hard, and there is huge profit, and some directors of the capitalists, they take it. And they have one dozen motorcars, palatial building, no work, simply wine and woman, that's all. This is going on. And the others, they are seeing = "There is no classification, neither real brāhmaṇa nor kṣatriya nor vaiśya. So he is enjoying like that. He has got so many cars. He has got such a nice apartment. Why not me?" There is struggle. This is actual picture. Our Vedic advice is that make life very simple. You must have some means of livelihood. Keep your body and soul together. So according to quality, guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13], there must be division, and then simple life.
The real aim is tam abhyarcya: how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Everyone is... Brāhmaṇa is guiding, kṣatriya is ruling and vaiśya is producing food, and śūdra, they have no brain; they are helping. In this way the society is very peaceful, and everyone is advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is India's civilization. Now, due to this association of the rākṣasas... Even up to Muhammadan time this civilization was being continued. Muhammadan did not touch the Indian culture. Sometimes by, what is called, fanaticism, there was fight. Not like this. The Arjuna... Aurangzeb began this. Otherwise, from, what is called, the first emperor?
Devotee: Mogul emperor?
Prabhupāda: Akbar. Akbar, Jahangir, then Shah Jahan, there was no trouble. They did not touch. Even there was some marriage connection. They want to remain as kṣatriya king, that's all. The other things were not interfered. So instead of a Hindu kṣatriya, the Musselman kṣatriya. People were satisfied = "A kṣatriya... We have to work. Somebody must be king." So in this way the Indian people accepted the Britishers = "All right, you remain king. Don't interfere." But later on, to exploit the whole country, they began to plan.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The industry, railway, and this way, that way---European way of life. And the result was they were kicked out. And India is now trying to perfect...
Akṣayānanda: The same thing.
Prabhupāda: Same thing. Yes.
Prabhupāda: Tragedy, yes.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Last year, when Governor Reddy was here, you were talking with him how "Let there simply be the government's position to check and see that everyone is following their particular religion."
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is government's position.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So how would, for example, the government... In a perfect society, how would the government check to see that the brāhmaṇas are actually practicing, and how would...?
Prabhupāda: There is... The brāhmaṇa... This is brāhmaṇa. This formula is there = satya śamo damas titikṣā ārjava. So you have to see whether he is possessing this quality. Or train them. Have brahminical school, what I am willing to do. That is required absolutely. There must be a class of men, perfect brāhmaṇa. Otherwise society will be ruined. In the Western countries there is no brāhmaṇa. There may be some kṣatriyas and vaiśyas only, and śūdras. Brāhmaṇas there is none. The same thing is here also now. Therefore the whole society is going down. There is no brāhmaṇa. What is this? This is brahminical culture. We are asking them not to be sinful; become devotee. This is brahminical culture. Namo brahmaṇya-devāya go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca [Viṣṇu Purāṇa 1.19.65]. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca---for the benefit of brahminical culture and cow protection. That is brahminical culture.
Jayādvaita: So to be recognized as brāhmaṇas...
Jayādvaita: To be recognized, our men will have to be, as you were saying yesterday, perfect gentlemen.
Prabhupāda: Yes, brāhmaṇa means perfect gentleman. Brāhmaṇa means perfect gentleman. A rogue, thief, cannot become brāhmaṇa. [laughs] Brāhmaṇa is perfect gentleman. Who feels for others, that is gentleman. Who does not feel for others, for his sense gratification, he is a rogue. A brāhmaṇa, a gentleman, must feel that "Why there should be animal killing?" That is gentleman. If you are killed, you cry and you are... Hundreds and thousands of animals you are killing on the plea that they have no soul. Lowest class, narādhama. They have been described as narādhama. So narādhama civilization, how he can be happy? There must be frustration.
Devotee (1): Yesterday, Śrīla Prabhupāda, four or five people stopped me while I was in a bus during the day, and they would stop me and look at me with tilaka and etcetera, and say, "Why have you given up your Western life and taken to this life?" [Prabhupāda laughs] They were amazed. And then I had a Bhāgavatam, and I'd show them your picture, and I'd show them the Bhāgavatam and say, "Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate [Bg. 2.59], a higher taste." And then they would appreciate. They would... They looked at... They were so impressed by your Bhāgavatam. They'd look at your picture, and they'd go, "Yes, yes, you are right."
Prabhupāda: Yes, in my Preface I have written that = "What is the necessity of the human society?" This is, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is required. It is a mistake to understand that we are trying to push on Hindu culture. Where is the Hindu culture? To become a gentleman is Hindu culture? It is for everyone.
Jayādvaita: They think that their paraphernalia makes them gentlemen. If they have a big car and a nice house, then they are gentlemen.
Prabhupāda: And he may be great rogue, that "Simply dress yourself nicely; you become gentleman."
Devotee (1): Usually materially opulent people are puffed up and mean. They're not...
Prabhupāda: Gentleman means that if you go to a gentleman's store, "Beware of the dog," "Beware of the revolver." This is your culture. And when you go to the airport everyone is searched out, pocket. So who is gentleman? Is that gentleman? There is no gentleman in the world. All rogues and thieves, cheaters, bluffers. Now we are creating gentlemen. Otherwise there is no gentlemen. Here is the proof. If we are gentleman, why we are being checked in the airport? Hmm? This is the proof. There is no gentlemen.
Akṣayānanda: Because they're not expecting any gentlemen.
Prabhupāda: That means there is no... In other words, there is no gentlemen.
Akṣayānanda: Yes. They're only expecting rogues.
Prabhupāda: Sometimes... In most cases they do not check me. "This is gentleman." And there is all..., no gentlemen. And this is the test, how to test a gentleman, that one who is not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. Or one who is surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, he is gentleman. Kṛṣṇa says that,
na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
So anyone who has not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, he is not gentleman. Bās. That is the test. He is not a gentleman.
Jayādvaita: Just like that man yesterday, that farmer, was so polite.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he is gentleman. He is Kṛṣṇa conscious. This can be used very nice dako[?] If you stack it nicely, you can use as dako[?]. It is very good...
Akṣayānanda: Cleaning shoes[?]. [break]
Jayādvaita: Cintāmaṇi gate.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the Vaiṣṇavas in general in Vṛndāvana, are they lamenting for the physical upkeep?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Are the Vaiṣṇavas in general lamenting for the physical upkeep of Vṛndāvana, or are they indifferent?
Prabhupāda: No, it is the business of the government. Vaiṣṇava can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra anywhere. He doesn't require any nice park. Ahaituky apratihatā. For becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, for a serious person, there is no obstacle. Any condition he can do it. [break] ...why there is sannyāsī? In the Vedic civilization, ultimately sannyāsa. Why? That one must give up the intimate relationship with wife. This is the ultimate position. Brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Tamo-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgī-saṅgam [SB 5.5.2].
Prabhupāda: That is recommended everywhere. Illicit or legal. Mahāprabhu has said, asat eka strī-saṅgī [Cc. Madhya 22.87] = "Anyone who is attached to woman, he is asat." Bās. This is the whole process, how to become detached from the attraction of woman. Dhīra. [break] Give up the connection with woman is recommended. So in our Society it will be a good test. We are mixed up with men and women. If you, in spite of this allurement, if you do not become attracted by woman, then you should know you are paramahaṁsa. [laughter] Yes. You are worshipable. And this Bhāgavata-dharma is meant for the paramahaṁsas. Paramo nirmatsarāṇām [SB 1.1.2]. That is... It is especially. Dharmaḥ projjhita. The other different types of regulated system, to become very religious man or to become very expert money-hunter or accumulation of money, dharma, artha, and enjoying sense enjoyment---the whole world is appreciating these men = who is irreligious man, who is very much able to satisfy his senses, dozens of cars and three dozen women, naked dance. They are taking this. Dharma artha kāma. And somebody is trying mokṣa, being baffled or dissatisfied = "These things will not... I shall become one with." So dharma artha kāma mokṣa [SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90]. So Bhāgavata says, "These are all kicked out," paramo nirmatsarāṇām [SB 1.1.2], for the paramahaṁsas. So anyone who is freed from all these allurement, he is paramahaṁsa. And this paramahaṁsa-saṁhitā, it is called, Bhāgavata... Paramahaṁsa-saṁhitā. Bhāṣyaṁ brahma-sūtrāṇām.
Pṛthu-putra: We also should be free from the extension of this, which is profit, adoration and distinction.
Pṛthu-putra: We also should be free from profit, adoration and distinction, which are just extensions of these desires.
Prabhupāda: A Vaiṣṇava does not require any, what is adoration or distinction.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There's a line of preaching in our Society that subtle manifestation of sex attraction is adoration, profit and distinction.
Pṛthu-putra: This is in the books.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is... Mahāprabhu says, tṛṇād api sunīcena [Śikṣāṣṭaka 3].
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There's another path going this way if you'd like to walk some more, Śrīla Prabhupāda. [break]
Prabhupāda: ...that garden.
Prabhupāda: Where so many men come there.
Jayādvaita: And it is just near our temple.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Very calm and quiet.
Hari-śauri: It's very pleasant.
Prabhupāda: But we shall go this way?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it's okay. The car is just back here when you want to go back.
Devotee (1): On one tape in America you said that the Westerners have created many, many parks, but because they are so busy trying to work hard for money they cannot take advantage.
Devotee (1): Therefore we will come early in the morning and take advantage.
Prabhupāda: [chuckles] Yes, that is our ājagara-vṛtti. Ājagara-vṛtti means we haven't got to work for anything. Everything should be done by others, and we shall take possession of it. [laughter] Just like the Americans. They have earned so much money, and I have gone there and taking possession. I am not more clever than the Americans? [laughs] "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and give money. I'll take to India." What do you think?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You once gave the example of a mouse. The mouse digs a hole, and then the snake comes along and takes the house away from the mouse.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And eats him. The mouse makes very comfortable home by digging, and the snake comes, he enters without any labor, and the mouse is there and he eats it.
Jayādvaita: Free food and free home.
Prabhupāda: Yes, ājagara-vṛtti. What is that? Python. Ājagara-vṛtti and madhukāra-vṛtti. For your necessities of life either you take ājagara-vṛtti or madhukāra-vṛtti. Madhukāra means the fly, honeybee, bees. They take little from this flower, little from this flower, and they stock it, and somebody comes and takes it away. Don't stock. Therefore we have to follow this, that whatever money is coming, spend it for publication or for constructing temple. No account in the bank. Finish. [break]
Jayādvaita: ...is that no one can be contaminated by it.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is blessing for them.
Jayādvaita: As soon as I have five dollars, I'm thinking that "Now I have five dollars. I can..."
Jayādvaita: I'm thinking, "Now I have five dollars, I can purchase something. What shall I buy?"
Prabhupāda: Why? If you don't require anything, why should you purchase? Don't create artificial demand. If you require to purchase something, then purchase. That is material civilization = "I don't require it; still I want it." Atyāhāra.
atyāhāraḥ prayāsaś ca
laulyaṁ jana-saṅgaś ca
ṣaḍbhir bhaktir vinaśyati
laulyaṁ jana-saṅgaś ca
ṣaḍbhir bhaktir vinaśyati
Finish. We should not possess anything which is not absolutely necessary. We are keeping these cars for preaching facility, not for sense gratification. We are keeping this Dictaphone for preaching facility. Otherwise why it should be required?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It is the whole mentality, then.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The whole mentality is changed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like the Kurukṣetra fight. Kṛṣṇa wanted; therefore He fought. Personally He did not want. Hare Kṛṣṇa. [end]