Dr. Patel: ...that man, and then Krodha Mahārāja knew that this man would be perhaps hanged by the officials. So he engineered that he [indistinct] Africa. He was smuggled into Africa. And there, in Africa, he learned Bengali by himself, reading books. And he was Bengali scholar.
Dr. Patel: He died very recently. [indistinct] [break]
Prabhupāda: He was professor of President's College, Calcutta. Their opinion is Sanskrit is the mother of all languages.
Dr. Patel: In Russian language there are so many Sanskrit words.
Prabhupāda: Deva-nāgarī. In the heavenly planets this language is... Heavenly planet the Sanskrit language is used. Therefore it is called deva-nāgarī. Nāgara means town, and deva means demigod. This language is spoken in the heavenly planets, deva-nāgara. But these rascals, they think there is no living entity in any other planet except this.
Dr. Patel: Now the scientists have started saying that...
Prabhupāda: So what kind of scientists? They can change their opinion?
Dr. Patel: Then they are learning science.
Prabhupāda: Rascals. Say rascals.
Dr. Patel: Then they are learning science.
Prabhupāda: No, no, say... Learning means rascals.
Dr. Patel: [laughs] Then we are all rascals.
Prabhupāda: No. We are learning not from rascals; we are learning from the perfect. We may be rascals, but learning is not rascal.
Dr. Patel: No, "we," I said, not learning.
Prabhupāda: If they change... "Now the scientists are thinking that"---that means they are rascals.
Dr. Patel: No, but as a matter of fact, they understand this thing from years back, that there should be life on other planets than earth.
Prabhupāda: Oh, many scientists say. I was known to one doctor Saha in Allahabad. He said there are life. There is no question of disbelieving.
Brahmānanda: There's that article that Hayagrīva sent. The title of the article was "New Discovery Creates Turmoil Amongst Scientists." Some scientists have now discovered some new subatomic particles. This has completely created turmoil amongst the scientists. All of their theories now are all...
Dr. Patel: Those are elementary particle, smaller than the element, present elementary particles.
Brahmānanda: Yes. And they found a lot of them, so now they don't know what to think.
Dr. Patel: Because they are trying to search it out by different method. This ancient... I mean, the Āryans tried to search it out by different manner, by yoga-vijñāna.
Prabhupāda: Śruti, from the Vedas. Veda-pramāṇa. Śruti-pramāṇa. That is pramāṇa. And nonsense, speculative, that is not pramāṇa. That is speculation.
Brahmānanda: They make some theory, and they become very complacent, that "Oh, now, this is it."
Prabhupāda: "Now we are advanced." And next year, again advanced. Next year again advanced.
Dr. Patel: Real scientists don't think that. You must not believe that. Real scientist say, "This may be like this."
Prabhupāda: But who...
Dr. Patel: It is their opinion.
Prabhupāda: How to know who is real and who is...?
Dr. Patel: They are learning. After all, they are learning. They have not reached that. They are not yuktas. They are in the process of getting it.
Prabhupāda: So why they say there is no God?
Dr. Patel: Who says that there is no God? Scientists don't say so. Some of them may be saying. Jagadish Chandra Bose did say so? He was a great scientist. Did he say so? No. If a few scientists say there is no God, that does not mean all the scientists. We are practically all of us, scientists, this architect, this Mr. Joshi, myself. We don't say there is no God. So, sir, don't say that scientists say.
Prabhupāda: Because you have become Vaiṣṇava, that is the...
Dr. Patel: Not... Even before that.
Prabhupāda: Unless one becomes Vaiṣṇava...
Dr. Patel: A real scientist finds God's working in every cell, every atom, every molecule.
Prabhupāda: No, no, our point is unless one has become Vaiṣṇava, he remains a fool.
Dr. Patel: That is your saying.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the statement of Kṛṣṇa. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. So anyone who has not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, he is a fool, rascal. That' s all. This is the conclusion. We are fool, undoubtedly, but we take the words of Kṛṣṇa. He is not fool.
Dr. Patel: [laughs] No, but He says, ye tu sarvāṇī karmāṇi mayi sannyasya mat-parāḥ [Bg. 12.6].
Prabhupāda: The mat-parāḥ, this is mat-parāḥ. Whatever Kṛṣṇa says, we accept it. That is mat-parāḥ. Mat-parāḥ means whatever Kṛṣṇa says, accept it. That's all. That is mat-parāḥ. And if I say, "I don't believe in Kṛṣṇa, whether He was existing," that is not mat-parāḥ.
Dr. Patel: That is different.
Prabhupāda: That is different.
Dr. Patel: But Kṛṣṇa says through so many things. Kṛṣṇa says through every leaf, every atom...
Dr. Patel: ...every molecule and every living cell, He says what He is.
Prabhupāda: So everyone, our...
Dr. Patel: That is what the scientists think.
Prabhupāda: ...scholars, they think like that = "Kṛṣṇa is fictitious. This Bhagavad-gītā was imagined," as if Kṛṣṇa speaking and Arjuna hearing, and there was no war as Kurukṣetra. This is their reply. There was no five thousand years.
Dr. Patel: Suppose, sir, it may be like that, as they say, but this is an acme of the knowledge. That's all. Even though it may be fabricated, it is the acme.
Prabhupāda: Acme of the knowledge you are taking, but you don't believe the source of knowledge. You are so acme of the knowledge. You don't believe in the source of the knowledge, so where is knowledge? That is darkness. Tama and jyoti---two things are there. This material world is tama, darkness, because here actually there is no Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is almost absent. And jyoti means there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That we were discussing last night. Taṭasthā-śakti. Taṭasthā... The jīvas, they are in the marginal position between tama and jyoti.
Dr. Patel: Tamas is dark and jyoti is light.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So the jīva is between these two things. Therefore they are called taṭasthā, marginal. Sometimes you may be in darkness and sometimes you may be in jyoti. That is your position. So those who are, I mean to say, accepting Kṛṣṇa's word, they are in jyoti. And those who are interpreting Kṛṣṇa in darkness, they are in darkness. Unless one has accepted Kṛṣṇa as He is, he is in darkness. Therefore Kṛṣṇa describing him mūḍha, narādhama. That man might have been in the jyoti, but he is losing the chance. Therefore he is mūḍha, narādhama. He had the chance of understanding Kṛṣṇa, but he is neglecting willfully. Therefore mūḍha, naradhāma. Men so much learned? Māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ [Bg. 7.15] = that learning has no meaning. That is another darkness. A person, without being learned, he is thinking, "I am learned." That is another darkness. That is another darkness.
Dr. Patel: Abhimānam.
Prabhupāda: Abhimānam. A person without knowledge, when he professes to be very learned and intelligent, he is more in darkness.
Dr. Patel: But really, sir, very learned people are very doubtful about their learning, to tell the truth. I had my professor who was a Nobel Prize winner in London, and he used to be very doubtful, everything, what he said. "It may be or may not be. Who knows? God only knows," he used to say. So we cannot say that all are in darkness.
Prabhupāda: So if God knows, take the words of God.
Dr. Patel: That he must be taking, I mean, in his own way.
Prabhupāda: In his own way he cannot take. [laughter] That is another di... That is another foolishness. You cannot take... No.
Dr. Patel: There are many ways by which to know God, is it not?
Prabhupāda: You must take God's word as it is. That is jyoti. The same example can be... Just like the sunlight. Sunlight is light. You have to take it as it is. If you want to know wherefrom the light is coming, what is there in the sun, that is beyond your jurisdiction. But light is there. Take it. That's all.
Dr. Patel: The scientists will analyze the light and call it...
Prabhupāda: Scientist is a rascal. How can he go to the sun? How can he go the sun and study sun? Therefore he's a rascal. You simply take "Light is there from the sun." That's all. You go there or not go there, the light is there. You take it. That's all. It finishes the business. This jyoti is called also Brahman. Jyoti. So when you understood..., want to understand wherefrom this jyoti or light is coming, Kṛṣṇa is replying, brahmano ahaṁ pratiṣṭhā. Bās, your knowledge is perfect. Why don't you take it? Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the source of this light."
Dr. Patel: Of everything.
Prabhupāda: No, everything means this also. And particularly, particularly He says, brahmaṇo ahaṁ pratiṣṭhā. So this is the easiest method to get knowledge.
Dr. Patel: Now, brahmaṇo pratiṣṭhāham, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. How the atmā becomes brahma-bhūtaḥ?
Prabhupāda: Take the words of Kṛṣṇa; you become Brahman.
Dr. Patel: That means he becomes Brahman. He realizes himself as Brahman.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Brahman he is, but the rascal, he is thinking, "I am American," "I am Indian." That is rascaldom. He is Brahman. By origin he is Brahman, but a rascal, due to his rascaldom, he is thinking that "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Indian," "I am American." That is rascaldom. Otherwise he's Brahman. So when he gives up this wrong conception of life and accepts that "I am part and parcel of the Supreme Brahman," that is brahma-bhuta [SB 4.30.20]. Otherwise he is jīva-bhutaḥ. [aside:] Thank you. Jīva bhūtaḥ mahā-bāho yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat [Bg. 7.5] = "These living entities, jīva bhūtaḥ, they are conducting the whole universal affairs." Jīva-bhūtaṁ mahā-bāho yayedaṁ dhāryate. Without jīva what is the value? These buildings are constructed because the jīvas have taken the material from the matter and done. So everything is like that. Why these trees are there? The jīvas have taken the shape of this tree, and it looks beautiful. Jīva bhūtaḥ mahā-bāho yayedaṁ... Everything is like that. So that is jīva. So that jīva... In the material concept of life the tree is thinking, "I am tree," the dog is thinking, "I am dog," I am thinking, "I am Indian," you are thinking something else. So this is jīva-bhūta. And when he understands that ahaṁ brahmāsmi, that is brahma-bhūta. Simple thing. Ekatvam. Ekatvam...
Dr. Patel: Anupaśyati.
Prabhupāda: Anupaśyati [Bg. 13.31]. That ekatvam, when he actually becomes brahma-bhūtaḥ---we understand that all these living entities, we are part and parcel of God, paṇḍitaḥ sama-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]---that is ekatvam, that "We are all servants." But the rascals are thinking, "I am master."
Dr. Patel: Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu...
Dr. Patel: Mad-bhaktiṁ labhate.
Prabhupāda: Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu means that every one of us, we are servant of God. That is ekatvam. Ekatvam anupaśyati. Anu means always. Anu means following the authority. [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. [break] [Hindi] It is not that something matter becomes brahma-bhūtaḥ. No. He is Brahman.
Dr. Patel: He realizes that he is Brahman.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's all.
Dr. Patel: He was not realizing it then.
Dr. Patel: He was realizing he was body.
Prabhupāda: So long he thinks himself as the body, he is jīva-bhutaḥ.
Dr. Patel: You said very well yesterday.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Jīva-bhūtaḥ. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ [Bg. 15.7]. They are thinking, "Indian," American," "brāhmaṇa," "śūdra," "man," "dog," "cat," "tree." This is jīva-bhutaḥ. And when he understands that "I am not these things; I am Brahman," that is brahma... Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu begins from this brahma-bhūtaḥ stage. His teaching is completely on the spiritual platform. Therefore people misunderstand us. Because we are speaking from the spiritual platform everything, they cannot understand. It requires practice. Abhyāsa-yoga-yuktena cetasā nānya-gāminā [Bg. 8.8]. Hmm? What is that?
Dr. Patel: Cetasā nānya-gāminā, that you must have continuous fixing of your mind.
Prabhupāda: No, that... No, I know that. But second line, abhyāsa yoga-yuktena cetasā nānya gāminā, that "One can understand the param puruṣa."
Dr. Patel: Hmm. Not coming up. Abhyāsa-yoga-yuktena cetasā nānya-gāminā...
Prabhupāda: Upaiti puruṣam param, like that. So this bhakti-yoga means abhyāsa-yoga. Practice.
Dr. Patel: Sir,
brahma bhūtaḥ prasannātmā
na śocati na kāṅkṣati
samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām
na śocati na kāṅkṣati
samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām
Dr. Patel: Then he gets real bhakti.
Dr. Patel: He becomes real bhakta, when he realizes that he's soul and not body.
Dr. Patel: Till then he is not a bhakta.
Prabhupāda: That is the beginning. Therefore Kṛṣṇa, in the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā, He says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe [Bg. 2.13]. Because everyone is rascal, he is thinking, "I am this body." Arjuna was also thinking, "How shall I kill my other side, my brother, my nephews?" Bodily. Therefore the beginning of spiritual education is to understand that "I am not this body; I am soul." That is the beginning. For so many years people are reading Bhagavad-gītā, but still they are in bodily concept of live. That is the misfortune.
Dr. Patel: Mahāmāyā duratyayā.
Prabhupāda: Yes. [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. [dog barking] No, no, no, don't. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Indian man (1): Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Jaya. Jaya. [break] ...concept of life means animals. So just see. The whole world is going on, nationalism.
Dr. Patel: Bhramāyān sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā [Bg. 18.61].
Dr. Patel: Bhramayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā.
Prabhupāda: What is this nationalism? We said, there is no such thing as nationalism in the Vedic literature. No such thing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Nowadays nationalism is very prominent, and we don't find this nationalism.
Dr. Patel: Now they are going to get rationalism.
Prabhupāda: Rationalism is required, not nationalism. No. This nationalism... The Americans and the Russians, they are enemies and friend only on this principle. Prahlāda Mahārāja was astonished, "What is this enemy and friend?" because he is māhā-bhāgavata. This is materialism. This is materialism. [aside:] Jaya. Why one should be treated as enemy and as friend? Everyone is servant of God. [break] He is going on at night also?
Saurabha: No, Śrīla Prabhupāda. [break]
Prabhupāda: Intelligence is above the mind. Intelligence controls the mind.
Devotee (3): And steady intelligence, that is acquired by hearing? We can keep our intelligence steady by hearing?
Devotee (3): But as soon as we stop hearing, then the intelligence...
Prabhupāda: Mind is disturbed.
Devotee (3): Then the mind will take over.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If the mind is not controlled by intelligence, then it will disturb. Then the senses will be disturbed, agitated. Then you are bound up by karma. Unrestricted sense gratification means karma-bandhana, bound up by the laws of karma. And bound up by the laws of karma means repetition of birth and death in different species. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantor dehopapatti [SB 3.31.1]. Different bodies means resultant action of karma. So if you want to save yourself from this resultant action of karma, then the first thing is to control the mind. That is yoga system, to control the mind. But one who has got intelligence, he takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and the mind is automatically controlled. Yogīnām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatāntarātmanā [Bg. 6.47].
Devotee (3): So the jīva is still higher than the intelligence.
Prabhupāda: Hmm? Yes.
Devotee (3): And if he is to control his intelligence by hearing...
Prabhupāda: Hearing about Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee (3): Hearing about Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee (3): But if his desire is not steady... For instance, if he...
Prabhupāda: If he hears about Kṛṣṇa, everything will be done nicely. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathā kṛṣṇaḥ [SB 1.2.17]. Kṛṣṇa will help. And that is natural position, to hear about Kṛṣṇa, to act for Kṛṣṇa, to think of Kṛṣṇa. Then everything is all right. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious. Therefore chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa is the easiest process and genuine, without any failure. Ceto-darpana-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpanam [Cc. Antya 20.12].
Devotee (3): When you say "genuine," that means that it works...
Prabhupāda: That is real spiritual activity. [aside:] Take it.
Devotee (3): So while one is chanting, he is automatically Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Chanting means hearing Kṛṣṇa, and that is Kṛṣṇa conscious. And then acting. The more he chants, his dirty things in the heart becomes cleansed, and he acts for Kṛṣṇa's service.
Devotee (3): So the perfection, then, is to chant constantly.
Devotee (3): The perfection of chanting is to be chanting twenty-four hours.
Devotee (3): Constantly.
Prabhupāda: Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ [Cc. Ādi 17.31]. That is the injunction, sadā. Sadā means always.
Devotee (3): Well, if one is not able to do that in the beginning... For instance, if during twenty-four hours...
Prabhupāda: Therefore we are constructing temple. At least you will think, "We are constructing Kṛṣṇa's temple." Because you are habituated to work, work for Kṛṣṇa. Go to sell books. Print books. Type for Kṛṣṇa. This is also the same thing. Because you are accustomed to all these things, so nirbandhe kṛṣṇa-sambandha [Brs. 1.2.255]. When it is connected with Kṛṣṇa it is as good as chanting. Therefore we are so much eager. Otherwise there is no need of temple; we can chant anywhere. But that stage is not so easy, like Haridāsa Ṭhākura we can sit down and chant anywhere. That is not possible. Then you'll sleep. Therefore these things are required. Everyone, we are working for this temple. Every one of us, we know that "This temple not for my sense gratification; this is for Kṛṣṇa." So that is wanted. The police commissioner is thinking, "It is nuisance." Huh? Police commissioner is thinking it is nuisance. But we are not thinking it is nuisance. We are not so fool. The politician, the police commissioner, they'll think of, "He is my enemy; he is my friend." That is their occupation. They'll never think of Kṛṣṇa.
Yaśomatīnandana: Many people say... When we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa they say, "We chant in our minds. You don't have to chant loudly. You don't have to show off. We chant in our minds. We're always thinking about Kṛṣṇa."
Prabhupāda: Hmm. Yes.
Yaśomatīnandana: Even Dr. Patel, when we sometimes tell him, "Please chant."
Prabhupāda: Dr. Patel is learning if he says. We haven't got to hear from Dr. Patel but from Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He says kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ [Cc. Ādi 17.31], twenty-four-hours' chanting.
Lokanātha: Is it possible to chant within one's mind?
Prabhupāda: Chant means that your tongue must be engaged = "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa..." That is chanting, real chanting.
Brahmānanda: Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Jihvādau, yes. Chant means you must vibrate your tongue. That is chanting, "Hare Kṛṣṇa." It is never said, "You chant within the mind." Where it is said? These are their manufacture to avoid, that's all.
Yaśomatīnandana: Then, when we get into deep discussion, then they say, "Whatever I am working is for Kṛṣṇa. Everything is Kṛṣṇa." So ultimately they admit that actually it is not the person Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: No. In bhakti...
Yaśomatīnandana: But they are thinking themselves Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That is not bhakti. Everything is going on for Kṛṣṇa. That is fact. But that is not bhakti. Bhakti is different thing. Bhakti is anukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśilanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Never says, "Whatever you do, it is... Everything is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is all right." Never said. Anukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśilanam. What Kṛṣṇa accepts, that is bhakti. Kṛṣṇa accepts... Everyone is thinking... That is not Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious. So "Everything is Kṛṣṇa," that is all right, but when you think particularly of Kṛṣṇa, that is bhakti. Kṛṣṇa...
Indian man (4): Now it may say everybody had.
Indian man (4): Because those people, even trees have gone...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Indian man (4): Kṛṣṇa's [indistinct] hear they'll say they have gone to [indistinct].
Prabhupāda: Yes. They'll chant, such politician, "Jinnahbhai! Jinnahbhai!" They will chant like that, [laughter] rascals. But as soon as you ask them, "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa," "No, it can be done within the mind." [laughter] Just see their rascaldom. For some "Jinnahbhai," for a dead leader, "Jinnahbhai," as if he will come to life. [laughter] You see, this nonsense is going on. And as soon as you, "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa," "We can do it within mind." Therefore they're all rascals, narādhama. [break] ...never do the right thing. Always commit mistake and suffer. [break] Guru-mukha-padma-vākya. It is never said that "You can chant whatever you heard from all nonsense." Guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete kariya aikya, āra nā kariha mane āśā. So repeatedly you are talking. [break]
Lokanātha: Prabhupāda, why we have chosen this sixteen as a number to chant the rounds?
Lokanātha: Why not less or more?
Prabhupāda: We have fixed up sixteen?
Lokanātha: We are chanting sixteen.
Prabhupāda: No. We say "Minimum sixteen." Minimum.
Lokanātha: Why that sixteen minimum?
Prabhupāda: If you can, sixteen thousand you can go. Sixteen rounds is the minimum. But if you are able to chant sixteen thousand rounds, that is welcome. We have got so much engagement. Still, we say, "We don't find engagement." This is our misfortune. [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Haridāsa Ṭhākura was engaged in chanting, and the prostitute came. She offered, "Let us enjoy." "Yes, let me finish. Let me finish this chanting." So much engagement, and still we say, "No engagement." He refused to have sex with a beautiful young girl because he had engagement. "First of all let me finish my engagement." And we say we have no engagement. How unfortunate we are. [break] ...says, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ [Cc. Ādi 17.31]. Twenty-four-hours engagement He has given, and we see there is no engagement.
Lokanātha: Some devotees have fixed different number than sixteen. Some are chanting twenty minimum or twenty-five.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It should be increased.
Lokanātha: Is it recommended for our...
Prabhupāda: But don't decrease. Don't decrease; increase. Therefore one number is fixed = "At least this much I shall do." That is sixteen rounds.
Lokanātha: But you are recommending sixteen as a minimum, and some devotees are choosing twenty as a minimum.
Prabhupāda: So who forbids? Who says that "Don't do it"?
Lokanātha: They can chant.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is wanted. But because you cannot do it; therefore we have fixed up this minimum. Saṅkhyāta asaṅkhyāta. Saṅkhyāta means with vow, numerical strength. And asaṅkhyāta means there is no limit. [break]
Yaśomatīnandana: ...are higher than any other activities or they are on the same platform? Any activities in Kṛṣṇa consciousness... Is chanting the most exalted, or...?
Prabhupāda: Everything is exalted. Therefore there are nine processes = śravaṇam kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam, arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyam [SB 7.5.23]. So many. They are all exalted.
Yaśomatīnandana: So why is it recommended, chanting, in this age particularly?
Prabhupāda: Suppose if you have no temple, so you cannot perform arcana. So this is common, greatest common. It is not that because you have no temple, therefore your devotional service is stopped. There are other processes. You can do. [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.
Lokanātha: Prabhupāda? If we chant more than sixteen rounds, so how can we know whether we are imitating Haridāsa Ṭhākura or following his footsteps?
Prabhupāda: Imitation is also good. If you imitate Haridāsa Ṭhākura, that is also your great fortune, even if you imitate. Imitating, it does not mean you are condemned. Even if you imitate, that is also good. If you have some other business and if you say, "Now I am imitating Haridāsa Ṭhākura. I cannot do it," that is very bad. "I am busy in imitating Haridāsa Ṭhākura." That is not good. That is very bad. [break]
Brahmānanda: If the devotees are asked for service they say, "Oh, I have to chant."
Prabhupāda: "I am imitating." Yes. "I am imitating Haridāsa. This is my first business." That is very bad. [end]