Prabhupāda: The people are thropping. Thropping? Thropping? What is called?
Bhagavān: Shopping? Throbbing?
Prabhupāda: Throbbing or thropping?
Brāhmananda: Groping?
Prabhupāda: No. Throbbing?
Bhagavān: Groving? What does that mean?
Prabhupāda: [Bengali] Cat-patha[?]. Just like when you take a fish from the water and put it in the land.
Bhagavān: Oh, throbbing, throbbing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is right word?
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. All politicians, political party, nobody is in peace, simply throbbing---making this party, making that party, combining this party, and the anti-government troops, and this, that, so many... There is no other business.
Brahmānanda: No solution.
Prabhupāda: No solution. Big, big leaders. Nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam [Bg. 7.13]. Mūḍhāḥ. "All these rascals, they do not know the background is 'I am.' Solution should come from Me," Kṛṣṇa says. Tribhir guṇa-māyāir bhāvair mohita. But they'll not take this solution. They'll make simply, start a plan. [break] ...less you come to this point, mām ebhyaḥ, there is no solution. Now, at least for me, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is no more theoretical. It is practical. I can solve all problems.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The people don't want to accept any austerity, though.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The people won't accept any austerity.
Prabhupāda: Then you must suffer from the disease. If you have got disease, you must undergo the... What is this austerity? Where is the austerity?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: If they don't accept the medicine, then they can't be cured.
Prabhupāda: Then they must suffer. A man, diseased, and he doesn't want to take medicine, then where is the...? He must suffer. Where is the cure?
Pañcadraviḍa: They say we're the ones who are diseased.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Pañcadraviḍa: They say we are the ones who are diseased. They say, every one of us, we are diseased, not them.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The deaf man thinks all others deaf. [laughter] That means they are not even human beings. Animals. They do not come to reason, that "Whether we are diseased or you are diseased? Sit down. Talk." And that also, they are not ready. Then? What we can do with the animals?
Pañcadraviḍa: They say we are old-fashioned. They don't want to bother with us anymore.
Prabhupāda: Hmm? Then why do you bother with the problems? Why do you bother with the problems of society? You bother, but you cannot make a solution. All over the world, the newspaper is full, simply throbbing.
Viṣṇujana: Śrīla Prabhupāda, can you make them reasonable? If they're unreasonable, is there some way to make them reasonable?
Prabhupāda: They are reasonable. Man, every human being, is reasonable. It is said, "Man is rational animal." So when the rationality is not there, that means they are still animal.
Pañcadraviḍa: Well, what can be done with animals?
Prabhupāda: It is... It is very simple truth. Just I am this body. I am seeking happiness. So why I am seeking happiness? The... If you simply discuss on this point, then we'll find that a man is reasonable. Why I am seeking after happiness? What is the answer? That's a fact. Everyone is seeking happiness. Why we are seeking happiness? What is the answer?
Pañcadraviḍa: Because everybody's miserable, and they don't like it.
Prabhupāda: That is a opposite way explanation.
Kīrtanānanda: 'Cause by nature I am happy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. By nature I am happy. And who is happy, this body or the soul?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, the soul.
Prabhupāda: Who wants happiness? I want protect this body---why? Because I am within this body. And if I go away from this body, who seeks for the happiness of this body? This common reason they have no sense. Why I am seeking happiness? I am covering this body because the body may not be affected by cold. Then why I am seeking happiness of the body from cold and heat? Because I am within the... If I go away from the within the body, then there is no more seeking after happiness. Either you throw it on the street or it is in extreme cold or extreme heat, it doesn't matter. Then who is seeking happiness? That they do not know. For whom you are so busy for happiness? That they do not know. Just like cats and dogs.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But they think they have no time to chant the holy name.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Their philosophy is that to be..., in order to be happy, they have to work all day long.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. That is your philosophy. You are rascals. But we are not working. Why don't you see our example? We are simply living happily.
Satsvarūpa: But they say we're living off their work.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Satsvarūpa: They work and we beg money from them, they say.
Prabhupāda: We don't beg money from them. We take their money in the way that they'll use it for bad purposes, so we take it for Kṛṣṇa. They'll drink. They'll smoke. They'll have illicit sex and go to hell. Therefore, out of our humbleness, we have become beggar, just like a father asking the child---he has taken one hundred rupees note and spoiling---"My dear child, you are so nice. Why you are taking this? Give this. Take a lozenges." Like that. We are not for their money. That's a wrong theory.
Pañcadraviḍa: But they say this drinking and smoking, it's all right, but you are parasites because you're taking our money.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Pañcadraviḍa: They say that smo...
Prabhupāda: I'm not after... I kick on your face. I don't want your money. [laughter] You are taking books from us, and you are paying. Therefore I have adopted this means. They may not say... I knew that they would say in the Western countries. Therefore I thought that without books it is not possible. What is this?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Come this way, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Jayapatāka is pointing to...
Prabhupāda: All of a...
Śrutakīrti: We can cross, right... No? No.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Jayapatāka Mahārāja?
Prabhupāda: There is no house?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You want Prabhupāda to come...?
Prabhupāda: So why he's claiming his money? Eh?
Pañcadraviḍa: He says, "Because I work for it."
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But money, what is the standard of money? First of all, just discuss this. What is the standard of money throughout the whole world?
Devotee (1): Work, labor, labor.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Devotee (1): Labor.
Pañcadraviḍa: Purchases happiness.
Prabhupāda: Gold. So have you created gold? How is your money? The gold is already there. You have stolen. You are thief. You are not laborer, but you are rascal, thief. You'll be punished for this policy. Is gold your property?
Devotee (1): But they say that if the whole world follows our example, then the society will be finished.
Prabhupāda: Nobody follows. We do not follow... There are so many... Why they are struggle? Why they struggle? Why do you fight? Because you are all thieves---you want to steal God's gold---therefore you fight. Why do you fight? Why you declare war from one nation to another? Because you are all thieves and you want to steal God's gold. Therefore there is fight. Why do you claim, "This is America, my land"? Is it your land? Have your forefathers created this? Why you falsely claim like that? What is the answer? You have stolen from another party, Red Indians, and you are now claiming, "We are the proprietor." You are thieves. You are not even gentlemen. What do you think?
Pañcadraviḍa: But they say... They say, "God is up in heaven. What does He need with gold?"
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Pañcadraviḍa: They say, "God is up in heaven. What does He need with gold?"
Prabhupāda: "God is up in heaven"? What is that?
Pañcadraviḍa: Well, they say God...
Prabhupāda: Because the master is in heaven, or in some other place, therefore we shall steal?
Tripurāri: They say, "God gave us the land to do what we want with."
Prabhupāda: No. God did not give you the land. How do you think it is given to you?
Tripurāri: They say, "God put us here..."
Prabhupāda: God... God has given to every living entity. You can say like that. Just like father. Father gives to all sons, not that a particular son. Why do you claim? Why do you slaughter the cows? They have got right. So, so many faults there are. But they are not reasonable. That is the...
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They quote a verse from the Bible where it says that God has given man control over everything on this earth.
Prabhupāda: That control does not mean "The government is in control; therefore government should kill only." These... All rascals, simply rascals. Control, that's all right. You are grown-up boys, human beings, so you should control. You should maintain them and take service from them, not that you shall kill them. They interpret in that "Because under my control, therefore I shall kill"?
Devotees: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Just see how foolish they are.
Jayatīrtha: The children are under the control of the parents, but the parents don't kill the children.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: They protect.
Santoṣa: Control means protect. [break]
Prabhupāda: ...suffering for all these sinful activities, always throbbing. See the newspaper. The newspaper is full of news---one side, everyone is restless condition, throbbing, and another news, sense gratification. That's all.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is it necessary for people to leave the cities and live in our varṇāśrama situations in order to become happy?
Prabhupāda: You haven't got to leave anything, provided you understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are not after leaving or accepting. We are not after this. We are after understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness. What... What shall I leave? Suppose if I leave city---I come here---still it is God's property. So what..., what I leave? What I have got that I have to leave? Everything God's property. If you have something, then you can leave. But if you have nothing, what you will leave? It is another bogus. This is Māyāvādī theory. Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. Why jagan mithyā? If Brahman is satya, jagan is also satya.
[break] ...means they are trying to possess, and the jñānīs are trying to leave---both of them rascals. Where is the question of possessing? He's stealing. You... I want to possess, but that thing does not belong to me. Therefore it is stealing. And the jñānīs are trying to give up living. That is also not truth. But you haven't got anything, so what you are going to leave? So both are in ignorance, the karmīs and jñānīs, the yogīs. Simply Kṛṣṇa conscious persons, they are in knowledge. Before your birth the land was there, the world was there, everything is there. Now you came. Then how do you possess? Before your birth, things were there. How do you possess unless you steal and cheat? Hmm? What is the answer?
Pañcadraviḍa: I have inherited it.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Pañcadraviḍa: They say that man inherits the property of his father, which is God.
Prabhupāda: That means you must obey your father. Otherwise you'll be kicked. [laughter] You are so rascal that you don't feel obliged to your father, who has given you so much things, so many things. You are such a rascal. Therefore you must be punished. Karma-kāṇḍa jñāna-kāṇḍa, sakali viṣera bāṇḍha. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, "The karmīs and jñānīs, they are simply drinking poison." Karma-kāṇḍa jñāna-kāṇḍa, sakali visera bandha. "And by drinking poison, they are suffering different species of life," nānā yoni brahman kare, khadarya bhakṣaṇa kare, "and eat all nasty things." Āra janma adho pata ya. "One who accepts either of these, karma-kāṇḍa and jñāna-kāṇḍa, he spoils his life."
Satsvarūpa: So if all the land belongs to God, then who decides who will distribute it to the people?
Prabhupāda: You don't distribute. You live only, till the ground and take your food. Where is the question of distribution? Whatever you can till, you take so much land. God has enough land. Why do you possess more? One acre of land is sufficient for producing your food. Why do you take more?
Satsvarūpa: Nobody should own excessive.
Prabhupāda: No. Therefore God's representative, king, is wanted. He'll divide. "All right, you take this." That is king. King means God's representative. Naradeva. Therefore, according to Vedic scripture, the king is so respected, guru is so respected, father is so respected---because they give guidance. "You live, Kṛṣṇa conscious, like this." That is their duty. The king is simply planning how to collect taxes---this tax, land tax, sale tax, income tax, this tax, this... His only business is to plunder = "Let him work, and I shall take it away." And everyone is... That is struggle for existence. I want to cheat you; you want to cheat me. That's all. And therefore they are throbbing. There is no solution.
Pañcadraviḍa: Who will decide who will be king?
Prabhupāda: Therefore the king is evaṁ paramparā system. The king, the original king, is the sun-god. Then his son, Manu; his son, Ikṣvāku. Everything is described. Why don't you see there?
Pañcadraviḍa: But who would be the king today? If we establish such a system, who would become the king?
Prabhupāda: Nobody would be king. Everyone is king and fight, that's all. Nobody is king. Everyone is a dog. And they are simply barking.
Devotee (1): In Africa, recently, one of the leaders has taken all the mūrtis and crucifixes from the churches and put his own statue.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Devotee (1): He has banned all religions.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Devotee (1): He put his own statue there, that the people should worship him. He's a disciple of Mao.
Prabhupāda: And because there is no king, therefore he is flourishing.
Devotee (1): Yes.
Prabhupāda: Had there been any real king, he would have been killed immediately. Because there is no king, therefore in South India they are insulting the statue of Lord Rāmacandra, because there is no king. Everyone is king, diplomacy..., democracy. What is this nonsense, democracy? All over the world the royalty is hereditary, never elected. [break] ...and it was hereditary, even Russia. That is the system. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam [Bg. 4.2]. And evaṁ paramparā-prāptam---who? Rājarṣayoḥ. They are king, but just like saintly persons. That is king, not a loafer class is elevated to the royal post. Rājarṣayoḥ. Although they're holding the post of a king for administration, they're just like ṛṣi. That is king.
Pañcadraviḍa: In France they went to the Queen a long time ago, and they said, "The people don't have bread." So she said, "Let them eat cake." And they did not like this. So...
Prabhupāda: These are all stories. Don't indulge in stories. Just try to find out the real fact from śāstra. Therefore śāstra... Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ [Bg. 16.23]. Leaving aside the śāstra, if one talks nonsense... [break] [end]