Prabhupāda: ...and standing naked, that those who are fond of nudie-ism, they will get it next life = "All right, you stand naked for many years." This is the punishment. Human society, naked, that is their punishment.
Jayatīrtha: And during the winter they even lose their leaves...
Jayatīrtha: During the winter, when it's coldest, they lose their leaves.
Prabhupāda: The trees are taken to be the most tolerant. Tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā [Cc. Ādi 17.31, Śikṣāṣṭaka 3]. There is an extreme example of tolerance, this tree life.
Dayānanda: In one of the purports in Bhāgavatam you mention that first comes humility, then nonviolence and then tolerance.
Dayānanda: Is that also mentioned that in other places in our śāstra?
Prabhupāda: There are many places. Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break] ...is given for cultivating God consciousness, and they have become advanced civilized, they are cultivating nudie-ism. Is it not? Nudie-ism. So the punishment is that "All right, you become nudie. You remain standing in one place for five thousand years." [laughter] Yes. The trees live up to five thousand years, ten thousand. They live.
Viṣṇujana: Prabhupāda? But they argue that if God wanted us to wear clothes He would have made us with clothes. But He made us without clothes, so...
Prabhupāda: The thing is that here, material world means that whatever you want, you have to work for it. That is material world. Things are there, but you have to work for it. In the spiritual world there is no need of working. You get all necessities. That is the difference.
Viṣṇujana: Yeah, we could say, "If God wanted you to have food, then He would have made you with food, too." [laughter]
Viṣṇujana: They say, "If God wanted us to have clothes, that He would have made us with clothes." So if He wanted you to have food, then He would have made you with food. Why do you have to go out and get your food? Similarly, you have to go out and get your clothes.
Prabhupāda: No, this is called... What is the definition in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa? Avidyā-karma-samjñānyā tṛtīya śaktir iṣyate. Avidyā...
viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā proktā
kṣetrajñākhyā tathā parā
tṛtīya śaktir iṣyate
[Cc. Madhya 6.154]
kṣetrajñākhyā tathā parā
tṛtīya śaktir iṣyate
[Cc. Madhya 6.154]
The three divisions of God's energies. One energy is His spiritual energy; another energy---these living entities, they are also spiritual---another energy, material energy, where there is ignorance and work. That is material energy. In the material energy everyone is ignorant and they have to work. Karma. Karma means working. Avidyā-karma-samjñānya tṛtīya. So here you have to work. Without working, you cannot get your... The things are ready, but you will have to work. So they have increased the working capability. That is civilization. Just like in the prison house you have to work. Eh? So they think this working is civilization. This is avidyā. So therefore they have created more work. From early morning, five o'clock, till ten o'clock, simply working. They do not know that "This working is our punishment." But because ignorant, they think that "Working is life." This is called ignorance. He does not know, "This working is my punishment. How to get out of this work?" No. To increase the work more, complicate, that is civilization. This is called avidyā. Avidyā-karma-samjñānya. Our tendency is not to work but get things. Therefore he has asked that question. Because he has to get cloth by working, therefore he asking, "Why God has not created?" That means tendency is not to work. That is spiritual tendency. Everything, necessities, automatically available. That is our... Therefore as soon as one man becomes rich, he does not work. He gets his thing by working others. The tendency is there, to retire from work. They go to a solitary place. They retire. They do not work. Weekly, at least, they want to stop worker, working.
So why this tendency? He does not want to die. He does not want to work. This is spiritual. Why man should work like... Therefore real civilization is that minimize work. Minimize work, save time, and go back to your spiritual life. That is civilization. And this is not civilization, to get the necessities of life, sense gratification, and work like hog and dog. That is condemned. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭan kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. This human life is not meant for working so hard for sense gratification, which are done by the dogs and hogs. Human life is meant = tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ śuddhyed. Human life is for tapasya. Why tapasya? Yena sattvaṁ śuddhyed: their existence will be purified. Then you will get unlimited pleasure. Yato brahma-saukhyam anantam. We are seeking after unlimited pleasure. So that is not possible in this material life. And we are thinking, "By working very hard like hogs and dogs, we'll get happiness." This is... The dogs and hogs, they work day and night for searching out where is stool, and as soon as he gets stool, he becomes very strong and stout. Then sex. Never mind, the mother, sister, daughter. This is hog life. Therefore this particular animal has been... Kaṣṭan kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. Viḍ-bhujāṁ means this hog, stool-eater.
So this human life is not meant for imitating the stool-eater hogs. This is in the Bhāgavata. But they have imitated this, that "We shall work. Work like hard work, hoglike, and there is no discrimination of food. All sorts of nonsense we shall eat, and in this way we shall get strong and have sex life. Never mind whether he is mother, sister or daughter. It doesn't matter." This is the modern civilization. And that is warned in the Bhāgavata, "No, this is not life." But this has become actually the life, of modern civilized men. Therefore it is called avidyā; not education, contra-education. [break] ...says, make life very comfortable. Just produce little food grains, and there are fruits. Even if you don't produce food grain, you can live on fruits and milk. No. The milk source? Cut down their throat, cows, and eat the meat. There is no need of food grain or fruit. This is civilization. And thus becoming duṣkṛtina, all the brain is being utilized for sinful life. Duṣkṛtina means intelligence applied for sinful life. Kṛti, kṛti means meritorious. But their merit has been applied for acting sinfully. Therefore they are called duṣkṛtina. [break] "...but by the orders of Christ we shall commit all kinds of sin, and Christ has taken contract. He will take our sin." Is it not?
Prabhupāda: Do they not say like that?
Jagadīśa: That's what they say.
Prabhupāda: "Poor Christ, he has to suffer for all the sinful activities, and he wanted to save us from sin, gave his injunction. That we shall not care." This is Christian religion. And therefore they have to close down this hypocrisy. [break] That Melbourne meeting, some of you were with me? No. In Melbourne I was invited by some..., many priests. Twice I was invited. The first meeting I am speaking. So there was a good meeting, all respectable priests. So they asked me that "Why Christian religion is dwindling? What we have done?" So I asked them that "What you have not done?" [laughter] So they were not very much pleased. But I, in the open meeting, I said, "What you have not done? You have done all sinful activities. Therefore you have to close down this hypocrisy now." That was my answer, "What you have not done?" Now they are sorry, "What we have done?" That is called ignorance. They have done everything all sinful. They do not know that it is sinful. [break] ...Bible, "Thou shall not kill," they'll not obey. That is sinful. Everything is there clearly, Ten Commandments, but they will not do that. Willful sinners. One may act sinfully, unaware. But they are willfully sinners. They know this is sin, and still they are doing that.
Devotee (1): But they don't think it is sin, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Devotee (1): They don't think it is sin.
Viṣṇujana: They say that...
Prabhupāda: That means they are rascals.
Viṣṇujana: Yeah, that's the problem.
Prabhupāda: That means they are rascals.
Viṣṇujana: They want to gratify their senses, and they'll do anything and even misinterpret the scripture to gratify their senses.
Prabhupāda: That means a set of rascals, going on in the name of religion. But, how long they can cheat others? So you can cheat all for some time, and you can cheat some for all time, but not all for all time. [laughter]
Devotee (2): Is it all right to... You mentioned that to work hard is like... Because we're in the material world we have to work, this is the condemnation...
Prabhupāda: No, no. You have to work, but minimize work.
Devotee (2): I was wondering if it was all right to work hard for Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. To minimize this material work means the energy should be employed for Kṛṣṇa. Minimize work this, means this side, material side. And save time and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. That is the principle. And if you are busy from the early morning to go to the working place and up to ten o'clock, then where you get for chanting, time? So therefore you save time from material activities and engage it for advancing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is life.
Rāmeśvara: But the Communists, they also argue that this Christian religion is hypocrisy. It has not brought peace on earth. So they also want to abolish it.
Rāmeśvara: They also want to abolish religion, this Christian religion, and just have a...
Prabhupāda: That is bad experience. They have got bad experience from this so-called Christian religion, and they have no information that there is need of religion. Therefore they want to abolish. Everyone has got bad experience, and their little forward, that "Finish it." That's it.
Rāmeśvara: They say that the problems of the world are so great that unless people have allegiance to one world government, they will not be able to be solved.
Prabhupāda: That we say, that Kṛṣṇa is the supreme governor...
Prabhupāda: ...and take shelter of Him. Then everything will be solved. That we are preaching.
Rāmeśvara: They have missed that point.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Ekala īśvara kṛṣṇa ara saba bhṛtya [Cc. Ādi 5.142]. "Only master is Kṛṣṇa. Everyone is servant." Accept this principle and everything will be all right immediately. Immediately. If you study the whole Bhagavad-gītā, where is any word there which you can refute or which is not good for you? Study whole Bhagavad-gītā. All practical and very congenial for human civilization. Kṛṣṇa teaches from the very beginning, "First of all learn what you are. You are not this body. You are within this body." Now, who knows this? This is the first study. As soon as you understand that "I am not this body, I am within this body," immediate you understand what is spirit. Then your spiritual knowledge advances further. But these rascals, they do not know what is spirit, what is spiritual knowledge.
Devotee (3): They think that cows don't have a spirit.
Prabhupāda: They may think like anything, rascal. Do you believe that?
Devotee (3): Yes, they have spirit...
Prabhupāda: No, you believe it or not? They say, but whether you believe it or not?
Devotee (3): The spirit soul makes the body work. That's evidence that the spirit's inside.
Prabhupāda: Yes, how you can say there is no spirit? You have got spirit. Your body is moving. You are walking. You are eating. You are talking. And as soon as the spirit is gone, then it is dead matter, bulk. The hand is there; it will not work. The leg is there; it will not work. So where is the difference between the cow's body and your body? Come to human reasoning. You say there is no spirit, so how you say? Where is the difference between your body and cow's body?
Jayatīrtha: They say that the cow has no soul; therefore we can eat the cow. But now they say that the man has no soul, so the conclusion is...
Jayatīrtha: Previously they said the cow has no soul, so therefore we can eat the cow. But now they say that man has no soul.
Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore kill in the womb. That is killing, the abortion, killing. That means advance of..., advancement of ignorance is accepted as advancement of civilization. Why? The beginning is that there is no spiritual knowledge. Therefore the so-called advancement of ignorance is accepted as advancement of civilization. That is due to want of that basic principle of spiritual knowledge. Hare Kṛṣṇa. [devotees chant japa] [break]
Bhakta-rūpa: Perhaps that man thinks he has retired from working hard.
Bhakta-rūpa: Perhaps that man thinks he has retired from working hard. But still he is performing so many activities, material activities.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. What can he do? He has no other engagement. [laughter] He doesn't know that there is another engagement, spiritual life. He doesn't know. Ignorant. Karma-samjñā. That I was discussing, this ignorance. He thinks working is life, that's all. Hard work.
Jagadīśa: Now he's working hard to put a ball in the hole.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He knows, "This is life." There is no other alternative. That is his ignorance. He cannot do it; still, he is doing. You see? You know that when there was electric failure in New York, the statistics is that more women became pregnant. [laughter] But what they will do in the darkness? "Let us have sex." That's all. [laughter] [break]
Paramahaṁsa: At the Māyāpur festival the older gurukula boys are coming. Dvārakādhīśa and Ekendra, they're all coming. How many, about twelve?
Paramahaṁsa: How many?
Paramahaṁsa: Four. All four of them are coming. [laughter] [end]