Nitāi: Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. [devotees repeat] Bhagavad-gītā, Second Chapter, fourteenth verse. [leads chanting of verse]
mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya
tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata
tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata
Hṛdayānanda: [leads chanting of synonyms in Spanish, followed by verse translation]
mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya
tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata
tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata
[translated into Spanish throughout] So from last night discussion, it is to be concluded that we are not going to die. Kṛṣṇa said not only He, but also Arjuna and all others who were present in the battlefield, they will continue to exist. So how we shall exist? That is also discussed, that as we are existing now---we have accepted a type of material body and existing---similarly, after finishing this body, I'll accept another body and exist. Now, the question is that "In what kind of body I shall exist after finishing this body?" That is also explained, that if we like, we can exist in the higher planetary system, where the duration of life is very, very long, the sense enjoyment is very, very perfect, more than this world. This we can have. Similarly, we can exist in lower grade of life like cats, dogs, insect, trees, aquatics, like that. And we can exist also in the same way as we are existing now. And we can exist also exactly like God---eternal life of bliss and knowledge.
Actually, spiritual body means eternal life of bliss and knowledge. This body which we are possessing now, material body, it is neither eternal, nor blissful, nor full of knowledge. Every one of us, we know that this material body will be finished. And it is full of ignorance. We cannot say anything what is beyond this wall. We have got senses, but they are all limited, imperfect. Sometimes we are very much proud of seeing and challenge, "Can you show me God?" but we forget to remember that as soon as the light is gone, the power of my seeing is gone. Therefore the whole body is imperfect and full of ignorance. The spiritual body means full of knowledge---just opposite.
So we can get that body next life, and we have to cultivate how to get that type of body. We can cultivate to get the next body in the higher planetary system; or we can cultivate the next body like cats and dog; and we can cultivate such body as eternal, blissful knowledge. Therefore the best intelligent person will try to get next body full of blissfulness, knowledge and eternity. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6] = that place, that planet, or that sky, where you go and you'll never return back to this material world. In the material world, even if you promote to the highest planetary system, Brahmaloka, still, you'll have to come back again. And if you try your best to go to the spiritual world, back to home, back to Godhead, you'll not come again to accept this material body.
Then the question is that "If I am eternal, why there are so many miserable condition of life, and why I am forced to die?" So this is actually the intelligent question, that "If I am eternal, then why I shall remain in this material body, which is subjected to death, birth, old age and disease?" Therefore Kṛṣṇa instructs that this miserable condition of life is due to this material body. Those who are karmīs, means those who are engaged in sense gratification... They are called karmīs. The karmīs do not care for future; they simply want immediate facilities of life. Just like a child without the care of the parents, he plays whole day and doesn't care for future life, do not take any education. But in the human form of life, if we are actually intelligent, we shall try our best how to get that life or body where there is no more death, birth, old age and disease.
So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to educate people for that purpose. Now, one may say that "If I simply devote in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then how my material necessities will be supplied?" So the answer is there in the Bhagavad-gītā, that anyone who is simply engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, for his necessities of life Kṛṣṇa will look after. Kṛṣṇa is looking after for everyone's maintenance. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān [Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13] = "That one Supreme Person is maintaining the necessities of all living entities." So for a devotee who is trying to go back to home, back to Godhead, there will be no scarcity. Be rest assured. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham [Bg. 10.10] = "A devotee who is engaged always in My service, I look after how his necessities of life will be fulfilled." A practical example is that in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement we have got one hundred centers, and each temple, not less than twenty-five, up to 250 devotees live. So we have no fixed-up means of income, and we are spending in all the branches eighty thousand dollars per month. But by grace of Kṛṣṇa we have no scarcity; everything is supplied. People are surprised sometimes, that "These people do not work, do not take any profession, simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. How they live?" So that is no question. If cats and dogs can live at the mercy of God, the devotees can live very comfortably by the mercy of God. There is no such question.
But if somebody thinks that "I have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but I am suffering for so many things," for them or for all of us the instruction is, mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ [Bg. 2.14] = "These pains and pleasure is just like winter and summer." In the winter the water is painful, and in the summer the water is pleasing. So what is the position of the water? It is pleasing or painful? It is neither painful, neither pleasing, but in certain season, by touching the skin it appears to be painful or pleasing. Such pains and pleasure is explained herein = "They are coming and going. They are not permanent." Āgama apāyinaḥ anityāḥ means "They are coming and going; therefore they are not permanent." Kṛṣṇa therefore advises, tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata: "Just tolerate." But you do not forget your real business, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Don't care for these material pains and pleasure. Of course, we shall try our best if there is some pains and pleasure to counteract it, but even it is not done, don't be misled by these so-called pains and pleasure.
So one of the devotional quality is titikṣā, tolerance. That should be learned, how to tolerate in every condition of life. Just like those who are actually brāhmaṇas in India... We have got also brāhmaṇas in the Western countries, now created. So because it is pinching cold, they do not forget to take bath early in the morning. It is simply practice. It may be painful for one day or two day, but if you practice, it is no longer painful. So one should not give up the practice of taking bathing early in the morning because it is severe cold. That is not. Similarly, in the summer season, because it is scorching heat, one should not decide that "We shall stop cooking." Because in the kitchen it may be too hot, but for that reason we cannot give up cooking. Similarly, all the rules and regulation that are there, it may be painful, but we cannot give it up. We have to learn how to tolerate. Therefore Kṛṣṇa advises, tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata: "My dear Arjuna, the good descendant of Bharata Mahārāja, you try to tolerate this."
Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu has advised, therefore, just to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, how one should be tolerant. He has said, tṛṇād api sunīcena: "Just you become humbler than the grass." Just like one grass so many people are trampling over, it does not protest. Tṛṇād api sunī..., taror api sahiṣṇunā: "And tolerant more than the tree." Just like tree = somebody is taking his branches, somebody is snatching its fruit, sometimes cutting it, but still, the tree is giving you shelter, fruit, and leaves and fruits and flowers. Very good example. So anyone who is desiring to go back to home, back to Godhead, he has to learn to be tolerant and forbearing. That is the instruction of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā, amāninā mānadena: for himself, one should always think that he has no respect. He doesn't require to command any respect. But all respects he offer to others. In this way, if we become practiced, then we become fit for going back to Godhead, back to home.
That will be explained in the next verse:
yaṁ hi na vyathayanty ete
so 'mṛtatvāya kalpate
so 'mṛtatvāya kalpate
"If one practices like that, then he becomes fit for going back to home, back to Godhead." So practice, anything you practice... In Bengali it is said, śarīrera nama mahāśaya ya sahabe tai sa.[?] You practice in your body, and if you come to the point of tolerance, then anything you can practice and it will be tolerable. Just like in the morning, when we go for morning walk, they are practicing running. Eh? So many people are practicing running, but I cannot run. But... So if I practice for some days, I can also run. So anything you practice, you'll be successful. So if by practicing Kṛṣṇa consciousness you can go back to home, back to Godhead, why should you neglect it? That will solve your all problems. The real problem is birth, death, old age and disease, and if you can solve this problem simply by practicing some regulative principles, why don't you do it?
So that is our request. We are opening hundreds of centers to give training to the people to practice this and go back to home, back to Godhead. But you cannot go back to home, back to Godhead, so cheaply. You have to practice certain regulative principle; then you will be fit. That is not very difficult, and if you practice, that will be very easy. And the beginning should be chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra so that you'll be fit for practicing also. So therefore, take full advantage of this movement. Now it is one... We have got center in your city. I request you to take full advantage of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and be successful in your life. But rest assured. Do not be misled, that after finishing this body, every one of us will have to accept another body. If we neglecting the rules and regulation, if we have to accept the body of a dog, just imagine how much displeasing it will be. We have to take to this principle, as Kṛṣṇa says, mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām [Bg. 9.25] = "Anyone who is engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he comes to Me." So practice this Kṛṣṇa consciousness and go back to home, back to Godhead.
Now any question? No question? Everything all right?
Hṛdayānanda: [translating question] He says if we practice Kṛṣṇa consciousness and develop a spiritual body, is there also a spirit which animates the spiritual body?
Prabhupāda: Yes, we'll get spiritual body. Spiritual body is already there; it is simply covered by material body. You have to cure this material body; then you get your original, spiritual body. It is curing process. Just like one has got fever. Fever is not permanent---temporary. But cure this fever; then you healthy.
Hṛdayānanda: [translating] She's saying that you were saying how one can take birth as a dog even, so she's wondering how long does this go on. How many births does one take like this?
Prabhupāda: As long as you are unable to go back to home, back to Godhead, you have to change this body, either dog or this or that or this. And there are 8,400,000s forms of body. You have to accept one of them. Now you make your decision whether you are ready to accept all these different types of body or you get original, spiritual body. In the spiritual body there is no more birth, death, old age and disease, and the material body continuously there should be birth, death, old age and disease. You can get that spiritual body simply by little cultivation in this human form of life, next life. But if you get next other than human form of life, then you have to wait again millions of years to come to this human form of life. After all, we are under the stringent laws of nature. You... We are, every one of us, we are under the grip of the laws of material nature. It will go on. You cannot change it unless you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Hṛdayānanda: [translating] He wants to know if our reincarnations are progressive or degressive.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is progressive or degressive also.
Hṛdayānanda: [translating] Why would we take birth as an animal?
Prabhupāda: Because you act like animal.
Hṛdayānanda: [translating] He says that in the school in the material world, if one behaves badly, he has to stay where he is; he cannot progress. But he does not go back. So why...?
Prabhupāda: No, sometimes there is given the down class. Sometimes he is degraded = "Go to the down class." Yes. That is quite natural. [laughter] Eh? Down? So any question?
Hṛdayānanda: [translating] He says he doesn't believe that one can go back.
Prabhupāda: He may not believe in the law, but law is law. If somebody says, "I can commit some criminal act, but I don't believe in the court's judgment," will it be accepted? You believe or not believe, the law will act. Just like if you infect some disease, infectious disease, if you contaminate, then you must develop that disease. That is the law. So we are contaminating ourself with different laws of material nature, and according to that law, we have to accept the body. The material laws are not under your control; you are under the control of material laws.
Hṛdayānanda: [translating] If also on other planets one has to continue with the changing of bodies?
Prabhupāda: Yes, the planets... There are different planets means different facilities of material convenience.
Hṛdayānanda: [translating] Who is in charge of giving us our next body?
Prabhupāda: God. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati. God, in His Supersoul feature, He is situated in everyone's heart and He is seeing all our activities, and He is awarding the different kind of bodies. You can... If you like, you can find out this verse,
hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati
hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati
You can explain this. Find out. [Hṛdayānanda reads translation in Spanish] Purport? [Hṛdayānanda reads purport in Spanish] So we have to accept that we are fully under control. If childishly we say that we are independent, that is foolishness.
Hṛdayānanda: [translating] He wants to know if the senses, the material senses we now have, originally belong to the soul which has been covered by the material body.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like a man is in a normal condition, but if he becomes mad, the same senses are there, but he's in abnormal condition. So when we are in this material world we using our senses in abnormal way. So when we cure the senses, we get into normal condition. That is spiritual life. So sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. We have to give up all these designation of life and we have to become purified. Then we come to our normal condition.
Hṛdayānanda: [translating] He wants to know what are the characteristics of a person who has realized that he is not this body.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he is engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He doesn't know anything but Kṛṣṇa. That is normal condition.
Thank you very much. [end]