Brahmānanda: "Again there are those who, although not conversant in spiritual knowledge, begin to worship the Supreme Person upon hearing about Him from others. Because of their tendency to hear from authorities, they also transcend the path of birth and death." Responsively = "Again there are those..."
Prabhupāda: ...speaking... [break] ...and it is said clearly that you don't expect the general mass of people to be conversant with spiritual...
[break] ...they must preach. Anyebhyaḥ. Hmm, what is that? Read the first line.
Brahmānanda: Anye tv evam ajānantaḥ [Bg. 13.26].
Prabhupāda: Ah. Anye te ajānantaḥ. Generally, people, they do not know what is the value of spiritual knowledge. Mūḍha. They have been called as mūḍha. And duṣkṛtina. Duṣkṛtina means always engaged in sinful activities. If you do not have Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then your eating, sleeping or walking, whatever you are doing, it is all sinful. All sinful. You do not know how you are becoming responsible for killing so many ants while you are walking. You are walking, you do not know... We have seen, so many ants are loitering on the street, and you are killing. That means you are responsible. You cannot kill even a single ant.
So therefore, unless you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, whatever you are acting in your daily life, it is sinful. And you are becoming complicated, involved. This is the... Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām [SB 10.14.58]. This world is so made that in every step you are creating some dangerous position. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām. This material world is like that. Bhuñjate te aghaṁ pāpā ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt [Bg. 3.13]. Generally, people, they cook for themselves nice, palatable foodstuffs for eating and enjoying. But they do not know that they are eating all sinful reaction. Bhuñjate te aghaṁ pāpā ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt. What is the difference between this house and the next house? Here we cook for Kṛṣṇa, not for ourselves. Therefore we are being saved. Otherwise, if you don't cook for Kṛṣṇa, if you cook for yourself, then it is, in the Bhagavad-gītā said, bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpā ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt [Bg. 3.13].
So these things are to be learned... Anye ajānantaḥ. People, generally, they do not know that they are in a dangerous position, this material life. Dangerous position means now you may think that "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am this," "I am that," "I am Birla," "I am big man," but after death, you have to accept another body. Tyaktvā deham... Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. There is dehāntara. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. [aside:] Call them to sit down. You are not dead simply by annihilation of the body. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yam. You are nitya, śāśvata. Na jāyate na mriyate. You have no birth, no death. The birth and death is simply changing body. Just like we have changed so many bodies. I was a child, but the child body is no longer to be seen. That does not mean I am dead. I had my body of a child. That body is now finished. There is no such body. You can see in photograph your body, childhood body, but where is that body? That body is gone. So body gone, but you are living. Where is the difficulty to understand? And Kṛṣṇa says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. The body being lost, the person is not lost. The person is living. Exactly.
Just like I was a young man like you. I was also very beautiful at that time. But where is that body? But that body is gone, but that does not mean I am dead. Similarly, when this body, this old body, when it will be not workable, the machine will not act, so I or you, every one of us will have to change. Suppose your car is going on. Somehow or other the car stops. Then you take another car and continue your journey. The car stops to work does not mean that the man who is in the car, he also stops. No. He continues. Therefore it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. Your work is not stopped. You are transferred to another body. And because we have to work with this body in this material world... Just like car is already ready. You can... But this car, next car, is not ready, but it will have to be manufactured. How? You have to enter into the particular type of mother, and the mother's material ingredients will help you to manufacture a particular type of car, or body. The body is also a car, a machine. It is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā [Bg. 18.61]. Yantra. It has been said as yantra, a machine. This is just like machine. And we can perceive that. As soon as some part of the machine is slackened or not in order, that is your diseased condition. You cannot work.
So this we must... Dangerous position means that we should not be very much satisfied or rest assured that "I am in very secure position because I am American" or "I am this, I am that." You are not in secure position. At any moment, this car, this body, functioning will stop, and you have to change. So therefore we do not know what kind of change is going there. It may be very nice change or it may be very bad change. So therefore it is very dangerous position. It is very dangerous. You do not know. You have to know. You can know that if you follow the śāstric injunctions in the Bhagavad-gītā. You do now know, "What kind of body I am going to get next life," but you can know from Bhagavad-gītā. You cannot speculate, but you can know from Bhagavad-gītā.
The Bhagavad-gītā says,
ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā
madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ
adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ
madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ
adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ
Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ. Those who are in the modes of goodness, sattva-guṇa... Just like brāhmaṇas: they'll be promoted to the higher planetary system. Madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ: those who are passionate, they will remain within this material... Everything is material. This middle portion of the material. And adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ. Tāmasika eating, tāmasika sleeping... Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. So adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ: "They go down." That means they'll have to accept the body of animal, or lower than that, or in the lower planetary system. Everything is there. Adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ. Yānti deva-vratā devān [Bg. 9.25]. Deva-vratāḥ, those who are attached to worship the demigods, they'll go to the particular planet where Indra, Candra, Lord Śiva or Brahmā, like that... You can go there. Yānti deva-vratā devān pitṝn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ. Because karma-kāṇḍīya activities, piṇḍa-dāna. You have seen the Hindus. They offer oblations to the forefathers. So they will go the Pitṛloka. Yānti bhūtejyā bhūtāni. And those who are ordinary, materialistic persons, they remain in this world. And mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām: "And those who are Kṛṣṇa conscious, they will come to Me." Kṛṣṇa says. So why not become Kṛṣṇa conscious and go directly back to home, back to Godhead? This is our mission. You have to prepare for the next life.
So there are so many different types of next life, beginning from Brahmaloka down to the... Ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna [Bg. 8.16]. So why should we try for making a better position within this material world? Why? Why should we waste our time like that? We have seen that to occupy the post of president, Mr. Nixon, how much he had to work in the beginning. I was at that time in America. He was advertising, "America needs now Nixon." So he had to spend millions and millions of dollars, so many cliques and so many intricacy, political... But it is gone, the presidency, somehow or other. And now he is dragged down. Now he's offered position. So similarly, going to the higher planetary system, you have to undergo so many austerities, penances. Or even if you can go to the Brahmaloka or Brahman effulgence... Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. There is no security in any place. But Kṛṣṇa says, yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6] = "But you can go at a place wherefrom you haven't got to return. That is My paraṁ dhāma."
So why not that? Mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām [Bg. 9.25]. So if you worship Kṛṣṇa... The simple thing... Kṛṣṇa has agreed to take your service. Because you cannot see Kṛṣṇa physically. You can see. This Kṛṣṇa, when He's present in this mūrti, Deity, He's physically present, because you cannot work without Kṛṣṇa's being physically present. Kṛṣṇa is everything. So because you cannot see Kṛṣṇa otherwise, therefore Kṛṣṇa has appeared before you just like a stone statue. Because you cannot see Kṛṣṇa without His becoming a stone statue or wooden statue. That is Kṛṣṇa's mercy. But that does not mean Kṛṣṇa is stone. Kṛṣṇa is everything. So mad-yājinaḥ. To accept your worship, Kṛṣṇa is here. Don't consider that "Here is a stone Deity." No, He's Kṛṣṇa. He has agreed. Because mad-yājinaḥ. Kṛṣṇa says, "One who worships Me..." Now, ordinarily, where is Kṛṣṇa, we don't find. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is available in this form. Kṛṣṇa is so kind, that "You take Me. You offer Me service." Mad-yājinaḥ. "I will accept." We should worship Kṛṣṇa in that spirit, not that "We are worshiping a stone. He cannot see. Let me do all nonsense in the Deity room." No. He is seeing. Don't be so much cunning. He's more cunning than you. You see. He can see.
Just like in that story, the old brāhmaṇa and the young brāhmaṇa, Sākṣi-gopāla. Sākṣi-gopāla... So the young man came to Kṛṣṇa in Vṛndāvana, "Sir, You have to go to give witness because the old man is not keeping his promise." Hmm? So Kṛṣṇa said to the young devotee that "How you are proposing that I shall go? Can a stone Deity, He can walk? Do you think?" He said, "Yes, if the stone Deity can speak, He can walk also." [laughter] So devotee is so strong. So Kṛṣṇa had to..., "Yes, I'll go." First of all, He wanted to avoid. Then when He saw that "He's not ordinary devotee," He said, "All right, I'll go." So He came from Vṛndāvana to Kaṭaka.
So don't think that He's stone Deity. Sākṣād vrajendra-nandana: "Directly Kṛṣṇa." But He is available to my capacity of understanding Him. Not that He is different from the original Kṛṣṇa. [break] Kṛṣṇa's name, Kṛṣṇa's form, Kṛṣṇa's quality, Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, everything absolute. You're chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. It does not mean that it is a sound only. It is Kṛṣṇa personally. You are in direct touch with Kṛṣṇa when you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is realization. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
So how one can learn? Therefore it is said here, anye, anyebhyaḥ... What is that?
Brahmānanda: Anye tu evam ajānantaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Those who do not know, they can come to this Kṛṣṇa conscious center and they will understand by hearing the members. Anye anya eva. They do not know. People... We are opening so many centers---why? Because people do not know, and it is our duty to give them chance to know what is Kṛṣṇa. This is preaching. This is... [break] Not that... [break] Because people in general, they do not know what is Kṛṣṇa, we are giving them chance to know Kṛṣṇa. So by knowing Kṛṣṇa what will happen? Yes?
Brahmānanda: Śrutvānyebhya upāsate.
Prabhupāda: Śrutvā evam upāsa... [break] They'll inquire. They'll see how we are worshiping Kṛṣṇa, how we are offering prasādam, how we are offering ārati, how we are serving. [break] And they also learn... Then? What is this?
Brahmānanda: Te 'pi cātitaranty eva...
Prabhupāda: Te 'pi ca atitaranti. They also can go back to home, back to Godhead by learn... [break] It is school. We are teaching others. Unfortunately, they do not take chance of learning this great science. They are so unfortunate. We are canvassing, we are going door to door, we are publishing books, we are flattering them, "Please come here. Take prasādam. Hear something from Bhagavad..." "No." They have no time. They have no time. They are working like cats and dogs. They will agree to go to..., transfer this body, from this body to another abominable body, but they'll not try to stop this repetition of birth and death. Māyā is so strong.
So it is our duty to preach, to broadcast the message of Bhagavad-gītā as far as possible. That is our duty. It is not that it is a formality. It is not formality; it is our duty. Because Kṛṣṇa, we have accepted... We are eternally servant of Kṛṣṇa. That we forgot. Now, in this life, we have surrendered to Kṛṣṇa and accepted His service. "Kṛṣṇa, so long I forgot. I am Your eternal servant, but I forgot. Now, in this life, I can understand. Therefore I surrender unto You." This is our life. Kṛṣṇa consciousness people means this is, that "Kṛṣṇa, I forgot You. I forgot my relationship with You. But now I have come to know that I am Your eternal servant. Therefore engage me."
I am also serving. I am not here master. In the material world everyone is servant = servant of the family, servant of the community, servant of the nation---servant. Everyone is servant. Nobody is master. But what kind of servant? No, servant of my senses. The summary is... I am servant of the society, servant of the family, servant of so many things. The summary is I am servant of my senses. Because I want sense enjoyment, therefore I become servant of my wife. Actually, this is the position. I accept one woman as my wife---the real meaning is that I accept to become her servant. If I cannot satisfy her nicely, then she'll rebel. So I want to satisfy her senses. Then my sons, my daughters, even my servants. Nowadays, servants, you keep, you pay, but if he's dissatisfied, he immediately resigns. So you have to flatter him so he may not go away.
So in this way we are servants; we are never master. But by illusion we cannot understand. Why one takes the responsibility of family life, servants of so many items? Because I want to satisfy my senses. Therefore I am servant of nobody, but I am servant of my senses. This is the position. So when I forget to become servant of Kṛṣṇa, then I become servant of my senses. My position as servant remains the same. Again, if I give up the servitude of my senses and accept the servitude of Kṛṣṇa, then I am liberated. This is the position. Servant you have to do, remain. Kāma... The servant of kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā pālitā durnideśāḥ [Brs. 3.2.35, Cc. Madhya 22.16]. One who is intelligent, he comes to the senses and he understands that "I had been servant of kāma, krodha, lobha, moha, mātsarya, like that. So I have served them, but nobody is satisfied. Nobody is satisfied. [break] ...teṣāṁ na trapā na karuṇā jātā. They are not satisfied. You go on serving. Even Mahatma Gandhi, he was serving his country, but he was killed by his countrymen. It is a fact. So you cannot satisfy. Who can give more service than Mahatma Gandhi? But the..., what was the return? The return was that his countrymen killed him. This is the return. You go on serving your senses in the name of your country, society, family... They'll never be satisfied. And as soon as there is possibility, they'll kill you. So why should you be so much serious about serving other than Kṛṣṇa? That is sense. Better serve Kṛṣṇa. Then you'll learn. What is the result?
Brahmānanda: Mṛtyuṁ śruti-parāyaṇāḥ.
Prabhupāda: Mṛtyum atitaranti. Then you surpass the jurisdiction, beyond the range of birth and death. What is the last line?
Brahmānanda: Mṛtyuṁ śruti-parāyaṇāḥ.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Mṛtyu. You conquer over this repetition of birth and death simply by this process of hearing, śruti-parāyaṇāḥ [Bg. 13.26]. Śruti-parāyaṇāḥ. If you simply hear Bhagavad-gītā from realized souls regularly, by hearing only, you will be able to conquer over birth, death, old age and disease. This is the result.
Thank you very much.
Devotees: Jaya. All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. [end]