Kṛṣṇa-kānti: Morning walk conversation, July 14th, 1974, in Marina del Rey. [break]
Prabhupāda: Mātājī [indistinct]
Satsvarūpa: Mātājī [break]
Prabhupāda: Walking by the sea, it is very pleasant. Yes.
Bali-mardana: The sea is always moving. [break]
Prabhupāda: ...[indistinct]..., about my going there?
Jayatīrtha: To New Vrindaban?
Bali-mardana: Yes, I have told him he is waiting for the date. 'Cause Jayatīrtha..., they have not fixed up the flight number yet.
Jayatīrtha: Oh, Haṁsadūta. Yes. Yes, I spoke to him, we spoke to him yesterday morning.
[loud waves drown out voices]
Bali-mardana: Ātreya Ṛṣi?
Jayatīrtha: Ātreya Ṛṣi I have not been able to get through to yet.
Bali-mardana: Do you have his telephone number?
Jayatīrtha: Yeah. It's his business.
Prabhupāda: You have to take visa for Tehran?
Jayatīrtha: Some [indistinct] find out. [break]
Bali-mardana: ...sanctifying the whole world by your footsteps. You are criss-crossing the world.
Prabhupāda: That is stated in the śāstra = tīrthī-kurvanti tīrthāni svāntaḥ-sthena gadābhṛtā. Because a pure devotee carries Kṛṣṇa within his heart, therefore wherever he goes he makes a holy place. It is said in the śāstra. So not me, but every one of you, if you are pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa, then wherever you'll go, that is a holy place. Tīrthī-kurvanti tīrthāni svāntaḥ... To become sannyāsī means that, that he'll be pure devotee, and wherever he will go, he will be purify. That is sannyāsa means. Mahad-vicalaṁ nṛnāṁ gṛhināṁ dīna-cetasām. Mahātmās, they'll travel so that the householders, who are cripple-minded and full of sinful activities, they'll go there and make them purified. This is the idea of sannyāsa. And in the Vedic civilization a brahmacārī and a sannyāsī has open door. There is no restriction. No "Beware of dog." [laughter] But now they are prohibited. I have got practical experience. After my sannyāsa, when I was touring India, so in Ahmedabad..., or Baroda, I was entering one man's house. So he was standing on the balcony. [laughter]
Devotee: Saying "Don't come"?
Prabhupāda: "Don't come."
Bali-mardana: The age of Kali is perpetrating itself. [pause]
Prabhupāda: [japa] It is not their fault. Because in India a sannyāsī has become a professional beggar. Just change the dress and you can easily eat without any work.
Bali-mardana: And smoke bīḍīs.
Prabhupāda: Everything they do. In our childhood we had a house for rental. There was a man, he was a professional beggar. You see? So other members of the house, they'll go to their office; he'll dress himself just like a sannyāsī and go for begging. [laughter] That was his business. [pause] Here in your country there is no such opportunity, but in India there is good opportunity. If you make a dress of sannyāsī, you can go anywhere and you'll be respectable. They'll give you for eating.
Bali-mardana: Especially they prey on the women.
Bali-mardana: Especially they prey on the women.
Bali-mardana: In Delhi I went to one minister's house to get some papers. I could see in the back of the house the lady was entertaining some sannyāsī with sweetmeats and drinks.
Satsvarūpa: Our men have to change their dress before they go out, brahmacārīs. That's the only way they can beg in this country.
Umāpati: Śrīla Prabhupāda? We, because of our fallen condition, do require many mechanical means by which we can offer one another respects and to teach one another examples of scripture. For example, we are asked to bow our bodies down to show respects, or to call one another "prabhu," to understand that each person is a spiritual master to the other. How is a... How are the boys and girls to learn these things in manners of decorum and manners from the sannyāsīs, for example? How are they to offer respects to their Godbrothers. And, uh... [break]
Prabhupāda: You can. You behave like that, others will learn.
Umāpati: For example, I have seen many Godbrothers offer one another respects, but I very seldom see that in terms of some of our leaders.
Prabhupāda: So some of you show by practical example. Guide them. Then others will...
Bali-mardana: One person who sees can lead thousands of blind men.
Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. Very good. [pause] [break] ...not for rain, eh? Simply for covering the sun, eh?
Kṛṣṇa-kānti: There's no yajña, so there's no sun.
Kṛṣṇa-kānti: No yajña, no sun.
Jayatīrtha: No rain, no sun.
Prabhupāda: No, in the Kali-yuga it will be like that. There will be cloud, even thunderbolt and lightning, but there will be no rain. That is stated.
Bali-mardana: That is very inauspicious. That is not auspicious.
Jayatīrtha: In the Kṛṣṇa book you say that this Kali-yuga is compared to the cloudy season.
Jayatīrtha: The Kali-yuga is compared to the cloudy season of...
Rāmeśvara: The living entities, the living entities.
Jayatīrtha: And only by the appearance of Lord Caitanya with the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra are the clouds cleared away.
Rāmeśvara: Jaya. Just like sometimes there's a break in the clouds. Sometimes in the Kali-yuga there's the break, Lord Caitanya's movement.
Prabhupāda: Is there any ship here, it is going? No, it is standing. [pause]
Bali-mardana: There's little flies and bugs.
Kṛṣṇa-kānti: They're called sand fleas.
Bali-mardana: Sand fleas?
Prabhupāda: No. They're eating this.
Rāmeśvara: Those are the stones.
Prabhupāda: They can eat stone and digest.
Bali-mardana: They can eat the sand.
Bali-mardana: The sand is made of little stones.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not sand. Not sand.
Prabhupāda: What is this?
Umāpati: Shells. No, birds eat stones too.
Prabhupāda: No. Yes. They eat that.
Jayatīrtha: No, I don't know. They get nutrition from the stones?
Jayatīrtha: They get some nutrition from the stones?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: You said they have a special power to digest.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Especially these, what is this called? Duck?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, pigeon. Yes.
Prabhupāda: Peacock. Peacock also.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They swallow the...
Prabhupāda: Peacock also, they can digest.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They can swallow the very hard peas.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And they can digest very easily.
Prabhupāda: [indistinct---loud waves] ...I have seen.
Bali-mardana: According to Vedic culture, is seaweed edible?
Bali-mardana: Seaweed? Is that edible?
Prabhupāda: I don't find. Why they should eat seaweed?
Bali-mardana: In Asia, many people eat seaweed, certain types of plants that grow in the sea.
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Rāmeśvara: In America it is very popular.
Prabhupāda: That is all right, but why man should eat seaweed?
Kṛṣṇa-kānti: When there are so many nice things.
Prabhupāda: There are so many vegetables.
Bali-mardana: If vegetables are not available.
Kṛṣṇa-kānti: They don't have to cultivate seaweed. They just take.
Jayatīrtha: They have to go diving with lungs and tanks to collect it rather than plough the earth.
Rāmeśvara: They consider it a delicacy in the restaurants for the macrobiotic people, the young people who are into health foods. It's a health food. It's a delicacy.
Prabhupāda: This is also eaten. [laughter] Yes. This is eaten by the Japanese. They eat it.
Bali-mardana: They say it contains much iodine, certain minerals.
Prabhupāda: They make some food, and it is sold. What is called, that? They make some cakes by soaking in the water.
Devotee: Soybean. Soya bean?
Prabhupāda: Not soybean.
Bali-mardana: What is it?
Prabhupāda: They make some foodstuff. In India also they are making now. When I was in Ahmedabad, guest of one Mr. Patel, his business is to collect this. And he's a chemist also. And prepare some food. And he's got good business.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: One of the plans for science in the future is the food from the ocean.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Food from the ocean is already there---fishes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, not only fishes. They're trying to investigate more.
Prabhupāda: Fish is not sufficient?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, fish is not enough.
Kṛṣṇa-kānti: They're never satisfied with the foods they take.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Investigation is going on about the availability of food in the ocean.
Jayatīrtha: Also, they want to recycle the stool. There's one big plan to make a big city, and then the stool is recycled, and sixty percent can be again re-eaten.
Umāpati: I heard that in Russia they're already making butter from stool.
Jayatīrtha: Because the body doesn't efficiently take all the nutrients.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They can make butter. This market butter is sometimes coming from stool. [laughter]
Jayatīrtha: We have to get our own cows very quickly.
Umāpati: Here too, in this country also, they're making butter from stool?
Umāpati: In this country also they're doing that?
Prabhupāda: The... I... No. During wartime the German people did it, at least.
Bahulāśva: Now they're making artificial milk also, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Bahulāśva: They're advertising, "It's just like milk, without the sour taste, without the bitter taste."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are propagating that milk is not good for the [indistinct] natural milk.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Some scientist came to see me in Melbourne. He was speaking like that.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He was saying that milk is not good?
Jayatīrtha: Stool is good, but milk is not good. [laughter]
Umāpati: That's all right if you're a pig.
Prabhupāda: Stool is good... We see the pigs, they eat stool. They become very fatty.
Bahulāśva: They have no brain for understanding Kṛṣṇa. That only comes from milk?
Prabhupāda: Uh. Milk?
Bahulāśva: To have a good brain for understanding Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Not eating so much.
Bali-mardana: Some devotees think that if they eat large quantities of milk, the more they eat, the more their brain will become big.
Prabhupāda: No. That is rajasic.
Prabhupāda: Especially for devotee, too much eating is very, very bad. Atyāhāraḥ prayāsaś ca prajalpo niyamāgrahaḥ [NoI 2]. Too much eating is very bad.
Bali-mardana: They should only take what is necessary.
Prabhupāda: And too much collecting money also. That is also not good.
Kṛṣṇa-kānti: Too much what?
Prabhupāda: Collecting money. [pause]
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We were discussing that in all the living bodies we have these innumerable cells, living cells. And in these cells... We were just discussing whether the Paramātmā and the jīvātmā is still there even in the living cells.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is. It is there. So actually our body's a combination of these so many living entities.
Prabhupāda: Atoms, yes. Why not? The every living entity is one ten-thousandth part of the hair. So many hairs are there. And that is one ten-thousandth part of the top of the hair. Where is the difficulty?
Bali-mardana: So there is one jīvātma who's in control of the body. The others are subservient.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Jīvātma is everywhere. But you have got your own field. Just like for agricultural purpose you have got a big field, but there are so many millions of microbes and...
Prabhupāda: But it is your field. Not that when you go out of the field one of them become you. No, that is not. That is individuality. When you leave, you leave your field. That's all.
Bali-mardana: So when we leave the field, then the other cells in the body also leave their field.
Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore the germs come out as soon as it is proper time. So these nonsense, they do not know that, that the... Creating life, the ingredients... If they say that material combination makes life, so material combination is there already. Why the, that man is not coming? That is... He's individual, and they are also individual. I have got my field. I am individual. I leave it. But because there are so many other microbes, they will come as me---no, that is not possible.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, yes, but temporarily I cannot live without them.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I cannot live in my body without them.
Prabhupāda: Without them... You cannot live with this material body without so many conditions. And that is also one of the condition. You cannot live. Any condition, little disturbed, you become diseased, you become disturbed. So therefore it is called conditional life. You simply live here on condition. And spiritual life means no condition. If the condition is favorable, then your senses will act. Otherwise you have got useless senses. If there is light, then you can see. You can become proud of your eyes = "Can you show me God?" And what you can see, rascal? If God gives you light, then you can see. You see under condition. And still, he's very proud of his eyes = "Can you show me God?" This is going on. Rascal, what you can see?
Devotees: Watch out! [ocean water apparently comes up to devotees]
Jayatīrtha: Hare Kṛṣṇa! Ah. Govinda.
Jayatīrtha: The water's coming up to touch your lotus feet, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Why [indistinct---loud waves]? So we are conditioned. And still, we are searching out the truth. What is your truth? You are conditioned.
Bali-mardana: So they only end up with a conditioned truth, a relative truth.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The more you are not conditioned, the more your finding out truth is perfect. But it is not possible for you to become completely unconditioned. That is not possible. That is mukta puruṣa, liberated. Therefore we have to take knowledge from the person who is not conditioned. That is perfect knowledge. And one who is conditioned, what is the value of his giving knowledge? So therefore we don't accept any knowledge from the conditioned souls. Conditioned soul is imperfect by the four deficiencies = bhrama, pramadā... He must commit mistake. So what is the value of his knowledge? There is no value. We take knowledge from the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is unconditioned. There is a verse in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata = eṣad īśānām īśasya. That is God. God means He becomes..., He comes within this material world, but He's not conditioned. That is Kṛṣṇa.
Bali-mardana: And His representative.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The whole thing is managed by the law of gravitation, but when Kṛṣṇa lifted the hill, there was no weight. He's not conditioned by the law of gravity. He can lift up. We cannot do, because we are conditioned. And when they cannot understand God's inconceivable power, they think it is all mythology. Because he is a rascal, he thinks Kṛṣṇa also rascal.
Bali-mardana: They try to put Kṛṣṇa within the framework of their own...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam [Bg. 9.11]. Because Kṛṣṇa is kindly become visible to our eyes, these rascal immediately take Him as one of us. By His kindness He's coming to be visible by us, to listen Him, His instruction, but these mūḍhā will take Him as ordinary human being. Mūḍhā nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam [Bg. 7.13].
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the consciousness, my consciousness... The consciousness of those living cells are dependent on my consciousness.
Prabhupāda: No, that consciousness is not developed. It is not equal to your consciousness. Just like a child's consciousness is not equal to your consciousness because he's not yet developed, similarly, this human life is the full-fledged... Not full-fledged; almost full demonstration of consciousness. We have to utilize it for higher understanding. From material condition, the consciousness develops. On account of loss of consciousness, they become godless. So it requires time. So this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is to help them to develop consciousness very quickly. Yes. Otherwise, it will take millions of years. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścit yatati siddhaye [Bg. 7.3]. We are helping people to develop that original consciousness very quickly. [break]
Svarūpa Dāmodara: These cells, the micro-cells, they divide. They... Just like...
Prabhupāda: Let them do whatever they do, but still, Kṛṣṇa is there. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-sthaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣam tam ahaṁ bhajāmi [Bs. 5.35]
. [break] ...your undeveloped conscious, more you are servant of nature. The mo... As you have got less-developed consciousness... Just like the dog and the girl = she is developed consciousness, therefore the dog, less conscious, it is serving. Similarly, if you are not Kṛṣṇa conscious fully, then you have to serve māyā.
Bahulāśva: Kali-dāsa. [japa]
Prabhupāda: To serve māyā means to accept this material body. Māyā will give you a dress according to your karma, and you'll have to work. This will continue.
Bali-mardana: Oh. So those who do not develop their Kṛṣṇa consciousness fully must again take a birth.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma
yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti
na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam
asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ
yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti
na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam
asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ
This is the instruction of Ṛṣabhadeva, that "These rascals are working like madmen." Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ. Pramattaḥ means mad. And always doing mischievous, sinful activities. So this is not good. Because he does not know that for his mischievous sinful activities, he has got a body which is always miserable. So it will continue to accept miserable body. Therefore it is not good. A doctor can see that "This man is infecting this disease, and he will suffer." But the rascal man cannot understand that "I am infecting something and I'll have to suffer."
[break] The karmīs, they are trying to become happy by improving this material condition. But he does not know that he is becoming implicated more and more, because he'll have to accept the body. And there are so many varieties of body. [break] This is childish. That our Girirāja took some money?
Prabhupāda: Yes. He said, "Everyone is God." Somebody said. So Girirāja said, "I am God?" "Yes, you are God." "Then I can take your money?" "Yes." And he gave him some money, all the money. [laughter] So out of sentiment, whatever money he had in his pocket, he gave him.
Umāpati: It was ninety dollars.
Umāpati: Ninety dollars, it was.
Bali-mardana: He was caught in his own philosophy.
Jayatīrtha: By the same trick, Madhudviṣa Swami once got someone to take all of his clothes off and give it to him. "If everything is all one, then you will not mind giving me your clothes."
Prabhupāda: No. Their philosophy is, "We are one. What is mine, that is mine. And your---also mine. [laughter] Therefore we are one." And as soon as you'll say, "No, why not your mine?" that is..., that is not agreeable. Harer nāma [Cc. Ādi 17.21].
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That type of philosophy will not last long.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That type of philosophy will not last long. [long pause] Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the highly developed consciousness that, in the body, which is highly..., which has... consciousness which is highly developed...
Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, devotee.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So in the...
Prabhupāda: Highly developed consciousness means he's a devotee.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, but what is the relationship of the..., those individuals who are living with him, though they are not conscious.
Prabhupāda: They will live. Just like a dog live with you, but you are developed; he's not developed.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But still, he's benefited.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He's benefited from the consciousness of the master.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So... If the master is devotee, then he's benefited. Kīṭa janma hau yathā tuwā dāsa. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura sings that "Let me become a worm in the house of a devotee. If I have to take birth, I don't want a life, nondevotional life, even it is like Brahmā. I'll prefer to become a worm in the house of a devotee." This is the prayer of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. Harer nāma harer nāma... [Cc. Ādi 17.21].
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Similarly, when we associate with a spiritual master who has Kṛṣṇa consciousness, automatically we also have some taste.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Students.
Prabhupāda: Bhakti means enhancing spiritual taste. That is bhakti. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt [SB 11.2.42]. And as he increases his spiritual taste, he becomes detestful to this material enjoyment. This is the test.
Jayatīrtha: We should engage the hippies in keeping this place clean.
Jayatīrtha: The hippies are simply sleeping, and the beach remains dirty.
Devotees: Jaya. All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. [offer obeisances] [end]