Kṛṣṇa-kanti: [introducing recording] This is a morning walk conversation, July 12, 1974, at Marina del Rey. [break]
[some indistinct due to loud ocean waves]
Prabhupāda: So... New Vrindaban? Eh?
Bali-mardana: When would you like to go?
Prabhupāda: When we are going to Dallas?
Jayatīrtha: That was on Tuesday morning, Śrīla Prabhupāda. [indistinct] We were planning that you would stay there for two days.
Jayatīrtha: And then we're going to New Vrindaban on Thursday morning.
Prabhupāda: Tuesday [indistinct]. What is the date?
Jayatīrtha: We'll be leaving on the 16th. [break]
Prabhupāda: Delhi also.
Bali-mardana: What is that?
Prabhupāda: [indistinct] ...leaving there. They have come from, otherwise?
Jayatīrtha: Probably the man who brought them out.
Jayatīrtha: The man who brought them out to play with them.
Prabhupāda: On the beach, dogs are not allowed.
Jayatīrtha: No. Many times men bring their dogs out to play on the beach. [break]
Prabhupāda: ...if one successful yogī can walk on the water.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Is there any process in the science?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No.
Prabhupāda: Then? That is called laghimā, laghima-siddhi. Laghima-siddhi, you'll become so light that you can walk on the water, you can fly in the air.
Bali-mardana: There was one yogī who advertised just recently that he was going to walk on the water. And he sold tickets. So all the people came to see him walk on the water. Then when he got on the water, he went straight down. [laughter]
Svarūpa Dāmodara: In India?
Bali-mardana: It was in the West, I think.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, there was one...
Bali-mardana: There was an article in the Los Angeles paper yesterday.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, in India also, about ten years ago, there was one. India. In Bombay. But he didn't..., he couldn't walk. But it was sold. The tickets was about five hundred rupees or so.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But a... Big, big people were invited, and actually he didn't walk. He fell down in the water.
Bali-mardana: Maybe Kṛṣṇa took his power away.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He was almost beaten. [laughter]
Prabhupāda: The same thing...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He said he missed something.
Prabhupāda: So many birds are floating on the sea. Nobody's interested. But one rascal will advertise that "I can walk," they purchase five-hundred-rupees ticket. [laughter] [pause] People want to see magic.
Prabhupāda: And if somebody can show magic, then he becomes God.
Jayatīrtha: God is showing so much magic, but people don't recognize it.
Prabhupāda: No, this is also magic. But the scientists will say, "Water is combination of this chemical, that chemical." And wherefrom so much chemical came? That is a magic. But that magic he'll not see. Eh? Dr...?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That magic, they will say it was produced by nature.
Prabhupāda: So anyway, it is magic for him.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, but they don't say it is magic.
Prabhupāda: No, no. It is magic for him because he cannot produce so much water. In the laboratory he can produce water just to fill up a test tube. But wherefrom this water came? That is magic.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is so much beyond their concept that they just..., they just don't want to think about it.
Prabhupāda: Means that is animal propensity. The same thing, example = As a rabbit is going to be killed, he closes the eyes. "There is no danger." [laughter] "There is no danger," he is thinking.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, there are thousand things they are taking for granted without...
Prabhupāda: That is not science. Science should not take anything granted.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Something which is beyond their experimental knowledge...
Prabhupāda: Then where is the difference between the scientists and the devotee? The devotee, devotee accepts what Kṛṣṇa says. That's all. Granted. [japa] In the śāstra it is said that acintyā khalu ye bhāvā na tās tarkeṇa yojayet, yojayet: "Things which are beyond your conception or perception, don't bring it in arguments and logic."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is from Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu? Acintyā khalu ye bhāvā...?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: If they think a little carefully, then there is no reason why they can't accept Him.
Prabhupāda: That you have to do, to convince them that "You think little carefully. You are advertising yourself as scientist, but you are talking without any care." [pause]
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we have statistical data about the creation of the material universe, the material world. For example, like in a...
Prabhupāda: We have got also.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, yes. Four yugas, the four yugas comprise four million, three hundred thousand years. The yugas together, four. The...
Prabhupāda: Forty-three hundred thousands of years, four yugas.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, four million, three hundred twenty thousand.
Prabhupāda: No, no, four yugas, you mean to say?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Altogether.
Prabhupāda: All yugas---Satya, Treta, Dvapara, Kali---the total years are forty-three hundred thousands of years.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. The calculations by the biologists for the beginning of life, they say it is about four billion years.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: About four billion years ago, the small species like unicellular species like the bacteria and these, started about four billions years ago. And the human life started...
Prabhupāda: Well, where started? Bacteria?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. In the earth.
Prabhupāda: Then the earth was there.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, before that earth was formed.
Prabhupāda: Then where is the creation?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: When they say the earth..., first the earth was formed, and after that, it took some time to make some living entities.
Prabhupāda: That may be. But how the earth came into existence?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have several theories about that.
Prabhupāda: Not only one earth, but there are so many. [pause]
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They speculate that at the most, the human form of life started about five thousand..., about fifty thousand years ago.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's what they think. From similar type of species like human beings, started about fifty thousand years ago.
Bali-mardana: No, there's just new findings. Three millions years ago.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, that's about the... It's not the whole...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: There's all forms of species developing slowly.
Bali-mardana: No. Now they have just recently found a species of man three million years ago, and it's similar to modern man. So scientists... So now they have concluded that there are more than one species---a lower species and a higher species existing at the same time.
Prabhupāda: This Darwin is a rascal. He cannot... He has taken some idea from this Padma Purāṇa, and he has developed in a befooling way. There are different types of human being, four hundred thousand species. [pause]
[break] ...is to conquer over the stringent laws of nature. Is it not?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: No? What is the purpose of scientific research?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: To conquer over the laws of nature.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Is it not? The laws of nature is already powerful. So you have not conquered over the laws of nature. Then how science is powerful?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: You cannot conquer the laws of nature.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Science cannot conquer the laws of nature. That is why they try to think only about the body, the bodily concept, to give them comfort to the body by...
Prabhupāda: Sense gratification. That's all. Everything ending in sense gratification. That's all. [japa]
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's like it is a fashion to try to violate the laws of nature. It is becoming very popular.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is childish. That a child says, "No, no." Mother says, "Sit down." "No, no." [laughter] "One!" "Aaaaah." [laughter] Mother is the nature, and child is trying to violate the orders of mother. This is the position. So who will take them very seriously?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's why they suffer the result.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Suffer is [indistinct]. Tayā sammohito jīva ātmānam tri-guṇātmakam. Yayā sammohito... There is a verse, yaya sammohito jīva ātmanam tri-guṇātmakam, manute anartham... [SB 1.7.5].
Satsvarūpa: The car is this way.
Prabhupāda: Eh? Harer nāma [Cc. Ādi 17.21].
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The result of this violation of the laws of nature is that...
Prabhupāda: No, they cannot violate. That is not possible. There is no question of violating. Simply childish attempt, that's all. You cannot violate it. That is not possible.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they are... They are planning to make a... [laughter]
Prabhupāda: That is childish. That is childish. "They are planning." That is childish. Although they are being repeatedly baffled, still trying. This is childish.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have already timetable worked out...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...that in two thousand years they are going to make...
Prabhupāda: Yes, so that he'll not live for two thousand years. Then the bluff cannot be shown. You see? Violation is not possible, sir. That is not possible. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. You are trying to violate, but here are the four principles. It is not possible. You cannot violate. There is death; you cannot violate this. As soon as the time will come, you must die. Finished, all your scientific research. Four millions, trillions, and you can say at that time there was no civilized man. At that time man was dying and animal was dying. And at this time man is dying and animal is dying. So what improvement you have made? There is no improvement.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is also called tampering.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Tampering with the machinery of God. They try to manipulate in a different way so that they can get some deviations from the normal...
Prabhupāda: There is no deviation. [gets into car.]
Devotees: Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda. [end]