Dr. Patel: No, no, but even fallen,Vaiṣṇavas, Sāṅkhya...
Prabhupāda: Sāṅkhya is required, but the cause of Sāṅkhya must be understood, cause of all causes. Sāṅkhya philosophy is our philosophy, Vaiṣṇava, because it was enunciated by Kapiladeva. Later on, the atheist Sāṅkhya, they wiped out God. [break] Na brahmā na rudra ca. These are the Vedic mantras. [break] Koṭi-brahmāṇḍa-vigraha. Koṭi-brahmāṇḍa-vigraha. Innumerable universes are there in the body of Kṛṣṇa. [break]
Dr. Patel: Now they are not. Assuming... The government is telling lies, that some people have come to work, and they have not, not have work. [break]
Prabhupāda: ...bindu sama, suta mitā ramaṇī samāje, sohe viṣere mana, tahe samarpala, ābrahma yuga haba kono kāje. [Śrīla Vidyāpati] This is Vidyāpati's song, that "We are seeking water in the desert," taṭala saikata. Saikata means the sandy beach, and very hot. So then water is required. But we get little water. What is that? Suta mitā ramaṇī samāje. In the society, friendship and love, we are seeking that happiness, and it is exactly like seeking water in the desert. Although there is little happiness, but what is the comparison? Vāri bindu sama. I want water, but it is a drop of water.
Dr. Patel: Vāri bindu.
Prabhupāda: Vāri bindu. [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa. So when there is requisition of water like seas and ocean, what this one drop will do? He admits there is little happiness, but this happiness is nothing that we want in comparison. [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa. Taṭala saikata, vāri bindu sama, suta mitā ramaṇī samāje, tahe viṣere mana, tahe samarpala, havana yughamala na kāj. Mādhava āmāra pari nama nirasa[?] = "Therefore, my Lord Kṛṣṇa, I see my future is hopeless, and therefore I surrender unto You. There is no other way." Mādhava āmāra pari nama nirasa, tuhu jagad taraṇa, dīna dayāla, ataeva tohari varosa[?], that "I have no other hope. Simply hope You are." Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break] ...is better, the breathing air. That side is...
Indian man (1): Now the wind is changing, this side.
Prabhupāda: This side is pūrva.
Indian man (1): No, this is east. This is north.
Prabhupāda: Oh, north. So here, this is pūrva...
Indian man (1): The rains will come from southwest.
Prabhupāda: Southwest, oh, yes.
Dr. Patel: It has not changed as yet. Still... [indistinct comments by Indians about weather] [break]
Prabhupāda: ...even the sun, what to speak of other things, even the sun, the central point of this universe. Yasyājñayā bhramati saṁbhṛta-kāla-cakraḥ [Bs. 5.52]. It is also rotating in the orbit by order of Govinda. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break] ...nama utila pi-asa nīre[?]. Now, if you live on the ocean and if you are thirsty, you cannot drink a drop. You will have to die. Nīra kari vasa[?]. Although the same water we are drinking. Is it not, Doctor?
Indian man (1): Yes. "Water, water everywhere, not a drop to drink."
Prabhupāda: Yes. The same water drinking, but when it is purified by the arrangement of Kṛṣṇa... You cannot drink. And still, you are scientist. [Hindi]
Dr. Patel: One boy from engineers' school of technology here in Bombay has found out a method of...
Prabhupāda: That is another nonsense. He will turn one cup of seawater into sweet water, and it will cost some hundreds of rupees.
Dr. Patel: That is right, but these fellows, they have found some natural way.
Dr. Patel: He is passing it through this banana leaf, some very rational method.
Prabhupāda: Banana leaf. So that also required by God's mercy.
Dr. Patel: That's right. Nobody says that he does himself. If he says, he's a fool. But what I mean to say is from that way... And the government of Ceylon has [indistinct] this methods. There was a big row about it. This boy approached the Bombay Municipal Corporation for getting it done here [indistinct] they say... [break]
Dr. Patel: Scientist, that you say. Einstein never claimed that he is... Einstein was a great bhakta. Einstein is the grandfather...
Dr. Patel: ...of the modern science. He never claimed that anything can be done by man. Einstein has always said it is God who does it. Still you say that "Scientists are atheists. Fight them"?
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Dr. Patel: I don't think that is right statement.
Prabhupāda: No, no, there are many scientists like..., but generally they think in their way. Just like modern scientists, they are trying to prove from chemicals, life.
Indian man (2): Jagadish Chandra Bose, he was a great scientist. [Hindi] He can answer how many wise. He can answer.
Dr. Patel: There is no question of... He cannot make even a grain of sand. Scientists, if they say that they are making, that is wrong. They are finding out what is already admitted.
Prabhupāda: No. Some of them say, "Now there is no need of God. Science is everything." Even Dr. Radhakrishnan was saying in a meeting.
Dr. Patel: No, what is science?
Prabhupāda: Science means...
Dr. Patel: Science means knowledge. And knowledge is there. Knowledge means God.
Dr. Patel: But we are trying to honor the knowledge which we have not now known.
Prabhupāda: That knowledge is described in the Bhagavad-gītā = vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]. When one understands, "Oh, here is the original source of everything," vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ, that is greatest scientist. And how this knowledge comes? Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19]. They are struggling for the ultimate knowledge. So struggling many, many births after births, when, by the grace of Kṛṣṇa he comes to the real knowledge, then he admits, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ.
Indian man (3): [Hindi conversation about science] [break]
Prabhupāda: ...and police is controlling by beating them. Now they will go to the office, and again they will come in that way. And coming home for two cāpāṭis. You see? That's all.
Dr. Patel: They reach their office at two o'clock.
Prabhupāda: Just see. And again... [Hindi conversation]
Dr. Patel: Modern civilization is the civilization of the indriyas. We want a civilization...
Prabhupāda: No, no, indriyas... Material civilization means indriyas, but it should be so organized. That is the Vedic principle, that you enjoy your indriyas in a systematic way so that you may not fall again, another difficulty. That is the Vedic way.
Dr. Patel: The whole background of that modern civilization is indriyas.
Prabhupāda: Yajñārthe karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ [Bg. 3.9]. That civilization is yajñārthe karma. You work, but for yajña. Yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo mucyante sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ. [Hindi] ...modern science... [Hindi] This is mistake.
Indian man (4): This is not the ultimate solution.
Prabhupāda: No, that is not.
Dr. Patel: Ultimate solution, nobody knows.
Prabhupāda: Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ [SB 7.5.31]. They are captivated by the external energy. They think by material advancement they will make solution of all problems. That is not possible. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. He does not know that he is bound up, hands and legs, by the laws of nature, and he is trying to solve it by his own method of material civilization. That is the mistake. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ, ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā [Bg. 3.27]. They are all vimūḍhas, mūḍhas, duṣkṛtina, mūḍha. [japa] [Hindi] [break] He asked me, "What is the conception of hell?" I said, "It is your London. By artificial way you have kept it as heaven. But otherwise, it is hell." So this was published.
Dr. Patel: Bombay also is hell. Bombay, nobody inhabited this island till the Britishers came, and they created this spot. The importance of Bombay backward... Otherwise so far hell is concerned, they are both place. Best is Bangalore in India. Best. [break]
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. [end]