Prabhupāda: ...forsake that the cows are also being...
[indistinct] ...individuality, of the original calves and boys. And He expanded. That is... Read that portion.
Dr. Patel: Not only that, but His clothings and everything.
Dr. Patel: Sticks, clothings, lunch bags and everything.
Prabhupāda: Everything. This is God.
Girirāja: [reading from Kṛṣṇa book] "He expanded Himself to become exactly like the boys, who were of all different features, facial and bodily construction, and who were different in their clothing and ornaments and in their behavior and personal activities. In other words, everyone had different tastes."
Dr. Patel: Here I read about Him. [indistinct] From First Chapter of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. [break]
Prabhupāda: ...bhāva-samanvitaḥ. What is that? Iti matvā bhajante māṁ budhā-bhāva-samanvitāḥ [Bg. 10.8]. The bhajana is there...
Dr. Patel: "You come in my bhāva, and then bhajana."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhāva is the previous condition of prema. [break] ...in life there are so many varieties, temperature and focus of light, but actually, the heat and light is coming from the fire. So in spite of all varieties of degrees of heat and light, it is one because it is the energy of Kṛṣṇa. [break] Because original is taken away, and He has to satisfy their mother, other the mothers will cry, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa, my boy went with You. Where he is?"
Dr. Patel: Boys and cows and calves and all...
Prabhupāda: Yes, everything. This is Kṛṣṇa. [break]
Yaśomatīnandana: Prabhupāda? Are they as good as Kṛṣṇa Himself?
Prabhupāda: They are Śyāmasundara, but they are playing a different part in the face of their parents.
Dr. Patel: You are the old man with the banned face and you are the young boy and you are the ch, ch, chirping... [break]
Prabhupāda: Her mother sent him to become a śūdra. So he had to correct it again, but he is fortunate enough that he has come forward to correct himself. That is...
Yaśomatīnandana: My question is, Prabhupāda, that these boys and cows are viṣṇu-tattvas. They are not jīvas.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, viṣṇu-tattva, certainly. That will be explained later on. They...
Dr. Patel: Even jīva-tattva is part of viṣṇu-tattva. Everything comes from Viṣṇu.
Prabhupāda: No. [break] ...between viṣṇu-tattva and jīva-tattva...
Dr. Patel: [Hindi]
Prabhupāda: Viṣṇu-tattva. They are viṣṇu-tattva. They are the spirit soul, they are varieties. Mamaivāṁśa. Just like aṁśa. Suppose if you break one brick, some fragments come out. All the fragments are not of the same size. There are different size. Similarly, although all the living entities are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, their constitution of impotency are different. [break] There are divisions, divisions, subdivisions. Yes.
Dr. Patel: But final, the main group is this. [break]
Prabhupāda: ...teṣv avasthitaḥ. Mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam [Bg. 9.4]. [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa. Go on.
Girirāja: "The residents had no knowledge of what had happened. After entering the village, Vṛndāvana, all the calves entered their respective cowsheds and the boys also went to their respective mothers and homes." [break]
Prabhupāda: My younger sister, up to seven years she was sucking my mother's breast.
Dr. Patel: We, as medical men, advise not to, I mean, allow the boys...
Prabhupāda: She would not leave mother. I have seen it.
Dr. Patel: One year is the maximum time we allow. And the Americans dugs[?] don't allow them to suckle, because they spoil their... [break]
Prabhupāda: Baby's food.
Dr. Patel: And in Australia they give breast to the children or they give baby food? Yes. They are near to us.
Prabhupāda: Your girls are gradually becoming next[?] to America.
Indian man (1): Becoming anglicized, yes, Americanized.
Dr. Patel: Now there is the one world. There is no use of that. All are having the same epidemic. Yes. That is spread very widely.
Prabhupāda: And the medicine is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Bhava-auśādhi. Śrotriyaṁ mano-bhirama [SB 10.1.4]. Go on.
Girirāja: "The mothers of the boys heard the vibration of their flutes before their entrance, and to receive them they came out of their homes and embraced them."
Prabhupāda: They took the position of Yaśodā, directly feeding. This is the unique position of Vṛndāvana. [break] ...yogamāyā.
Dr. Patel: Yogamāyā samanvitaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yogamāyā-samāvṛtaḥ [Bg. 7.25]. So two māyā is working.
Dr. Patel: Yogamāyā is the superior māyā.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, for Kṛṣṇa, all māyās are the same. Just for engineer, the electricity is the same both in the refrigerator and the heater. For us, we see different, that "This is hot and this is cold." [break] ...when you are freed from all these māyās. That is Kṛṣṇa's mercy. [break] ...the sample of Kṛṣṇa's mercy?
Dr. Patel: [Hindi]
Prabhupāda: No, no. No, Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhāgavata, yasyāham anugṛhṇāmi hariṣye tad-dhanaṁ śanaiḥ [SB 10.88.8], that "This is My mercy. The first test is that I take away everything what he possesses."
Dr. Patel: [Hindi] We have not heard of getting [indistinct]. [laughs]
Prabhupāda: No, therefore people do not like to become Vaiṣṇava. No, actually. Yasyāham anughṛṇāmi. That is the first installment of His mercy. Yasyāham anughṛṇāmi hariṣye... You know this. It was questioned by Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira.
Dr. Patel: Yes, I have gone through this.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira. Yes. [break] ...a little doubtful that Kṛṣṇa is the Lakṣmī-pati, Nārāyaṇa, and those who are devotees of Kṛṣṇa, they become poorer. And Lord Śiva, who has no even a residential house, he lives under the tree...
Dr. Patel: The bhūtas.
Prabhupāda: ...and the devotee of Lord Śiva, they become opulent. So what is the reason? So this was questioned by Mahārāja Yudhisthira to Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa first answered, yasyaham anughrnami harisye tad-dhanam śanaiḥ [SB 10.88.8] = "This is the first installment of My mercy." [break]
Dr. Patel: I want to be [indistinct]... [break] Mahābhārata. Not Rama, Rama is being produced by..., in Baroda.
Prabhupāda: I have got Mahābhārata. Not that published by the Gita Press.
Dr. Patel: They are all, really, they have made it... For forty years they collected all the books...
Prabhupāda: Anyway, I have got this Mahābhārata.
Dr. Patel: That is costing about three thousand rupees. [everyone talking] [break] But is it not animal food?
Dr. Patel: That's it.
Prabhupāda: No, no, animal, mother's milk also animal food.
Dr. Patel: That's right.
Prabhupāda: Everything is animal...
Dr. Patel: But that does not mean it is not animal. [break]
Dr. Patel: But now the modern eggs, you see, they are not hatched out, and there is no life.
Indian man (1): Unfertilized.
Dr. Patel: Unfertilized. You see. He knows it. It is just like milk.
Prabhupāda: There is life. There is life.
Indian man (1): Unfertilized, but then...
Dr. Patel: But then what? [break]
Prabhupāda: She became widow at the age of eighteen years. So my father engaged her in worshiping Deity. My father was worshiping, and she was the assistant. Of course, she had two children by that time. [to Girirāja:] Yes, go on. [break] ...Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa is all-attractive. So immediately they attracted the other cows, although they were not actual mother.
[break] ...doctor in Calcutta, young man, he married the daughter of a very rich man. So his father-in-law gave him a motorcar, so he advised... He was a businessman. He advised that "Even if you have no practice, you simply ride on this car and go round."
Dr. Patel: [laughter] He's a typical Bengali. [Prabhupāda laughs]
Prabhupāda: So actually, by his going round, he increased his practice. [Indians talking Hindi at once] [break] ...between demigod. Demigods are also expansion, but that is separated expansion, separated expansion, vibhinnāṁśa. In the Varāha Purāṇa it is said, vibhinnāṁśa. And here, svāṁśa, personal expansion. [break]
Indian man (2): I have worked with men of international fame like Colonel de Gaulle, Colonel Acton, Colonel Knowles, but worldwide... [break]
Prabhupāda: ...living enities. Because you do not accept the soul, medical science.
Dr. Patel: Soul is already everywhere. But what do you say? Everywhere means only on the earth, not away from the earth, and then outer space. You want to say... Do you mean outer space also?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Sarvaga. Sarvaga means...
Dr. Patel: But these boys have to be kept in those living bags, with saturation of oxygen, who have landed on moon. [break]
Prabhupāda: ...the statement in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, kṛṣṇa yei bhaje sei baḍa catur: "Unless one is very, very extraordinarily intelligent, he cannot be a devotee of Kṛṣṇa." Svalpa-puṇya-vatāṁ rājan viśvāso naiva jāyate.
viśvāso naiva jāyate
[Mahābhārata, Skanda Purāṇa]
viśvāso naiva jāyate
[Mahābhārata, Skanda Purāṇa]
This is the statement of the śāstras: "Those who are less pious, they cannot believe in Kṛṣṇa and mahā-prasāda and the holy name." Yeṣāṁ anta-gataṁ pāpam [Bg. 7.28]. So you have given some medicine. [break] ...na bhinnam. Nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. So the medical..., anyone, lawyer, medical man, although they are very advanced in science, they have got difference of opinion.
Dr. Patel: Otherwise the research would not have... These modern researches would not have been brought into existence if there was no difference.
Prabhupāda: No, that is their nature, to differ. That is the nature. Nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam: "He is not a muni if he does not differ with other muni."
Dr. Patel: Yes, that's it. Muni does not speak. Maunam. [break]
Prabhupāda: Why there is difference? [break] ...and Kṛṣṇa's power is compared. Brahmā's power is just like glowworm, and Kṛṣṇa's power is just like day sunlight. [break] The power displayed, they are of different degrees. That is the difference. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they say everything is water. They give that example. But the sea water, the force of the sea water, and the water in a pot, small pot, the degrees of force are different. In England it is very common to say, "Lord Chelmsford. Lord Chelmsford," do you know?
Dr. Patel: Chelempor. We used to call him Chelempor.
Prabhupāda: No. So Chelmsford is a place, is a village. But he is called Lord Chelmsford. He is personified. Like that. [break]
Girirāja: One Lord Chelmsford, or anyone who...?
Dr. Patel: When his son becomes a Lord of Chelmsford and...
Prabhupāda: Yes, continues, continues. It is... What is called? They create aristocratic family. One has to deposit certain amount of money to the government, and then the family...
Indian man (1): Gets the title.
Prabhupāda: Gets the title "Lord." And to maintain their prestige the government supplies the interest of the money. And the first son becomes the inheritor. So in this way the Lord family continues. [break]
Girirāja: "...in the three qualities of material nature."
Prabhupāda: Therefore a man in any quality---it doesn't matter whether he is in goodness or passion or ignorance---anyone can worship Kṛṣṇa. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ [Bg. 9.32]. So there is no restriction. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā... [SB 2.4.18]. Anyone is open to worship Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is open for everyone.
Dr. Patel: This scene and all those things showed to Brahmā was to teach him a sort of lesson, to take out his ego from him.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That was the purpose. It was not that Brahmā was degraded, but Kṛṣṇa is merciful upon Brahmā and Indra. Hmm. Go on.
Girirāja: "Lord Viṣṇu, Brahmā also realized, was the reservoir of all truth, knowledge and bliss. He is the combination of three transcendental features, namely eternity, knowledge and bliss. Is the object of worship by the followers of the Upaniṣads. Brahmā realized that all the different forms of cows, boys and calves transformed into Viṣṇu forms were not transformed by a mysticism of the type that a yogī or demigod can display by specific powers invested in him. The cows, calves and boys transformed into viṣṇu-mūrtis, or Viṣṇu forms, were not displays of viṣṇu-māyā, or Viṣṇu energy, but were Viṣṇu Himself. The respective qualifications of Viṣṇu and viṣṇu-māyā are just like fire and heat. In the heat there is the qualification..." [break]
Dr. Patel: [Sanskrit] [break]
Prabhupāda: So you stop. You stop only. Give up, give up the result.
Dr. Patel: That is what the Bhagavad-gītā says. [break]
Prabhupāda: ...kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ,...
Dr. Patel: Sa sannyāsī ca yogi ca [Bg. 6.1].
Prabhupāda: Hmm. Go on.
Dr. Patel: [Hindi]
Girirāja: "The transcendental form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is perfect, or so great that the impersonal followers of the Upaniṣads cannot..." [break]
Prabhupāda: Sometimes we...
Dr. Patel: First reading, you don't mind following.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So after all, we have got still the material body. Sometimes we get tired. That is also fortune. [break] That is the advantage of human life. You can check.
Dr. Patel: Particular intelligence is given to human being?
Dr. Patel: The elephant has got so much intelligence, they say, as good as human being. No?
Prabhupāda: Intelligence... Not only intelligence. Human life has got the discriminating power. Sad-asat. [Indians speaking all together]
[break] ...infected, how your medicine will be sold?
[break] [Indians speaking] ...merchant, I will say like that. [break] Since we are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, then bahyābhyantaraṁ śuciḥ [Garuḍa Purāṇa]. We are... What is called? Prophylactic, prophylactic.
Dr. Patel: That is [indistinct]. [break] [end]