Prabhupāda: That is not possible. If... They are very, very great, powerful. Even apparently it seems that they were victims of beauty, that is not the fact.
Satsvarūpa: If their son was Vyāsadeva, how could it be falldown?
Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes.
Satsvarūpa: If the son was Vyāsadeva...
Prabhupāda: He could beget a child like Vyāsadeva. [break]
Girirāja: [reading from Kṛṣṇa book] "Chapter Two. 'Prayers by the Demigods for Lord Kṛṣṇa in the Womb.' King Kaṁsa not only occupied the kingdoms of the Yadu, Bhoja and Andhaka dynasties and the kingdom of Śūrasena..." [break]
Prabhupāda: So the only expense... [break] ...intention of Kṛṣṇa.
Girirāja: Kṛṣṇa and yog...
Prabhupāda: [break] ...he says, this mantra, nāyam ātmā bala-hīnā na labhya, he says, "Unless you very, become very stout and strong and there is no question of advancement in spiritual life. Therefore we should first of all eat meat and become very strong, and then we'll be spiritually realized."
Yaśomatīnandana: Who says that?
Prabhupāda: Vivekananda. [break] ...physical strength. [break]
Yaśomatīnandana: ...Dvārakā. Vasudeva.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa was transferred to Vṛndāvana. Not other city[?].
Yaśomatīnandana: Kṛṣṇa had other brothers and sisters besides Balarāma and Subhadrā?
Prabhupāda: We hear only two. [break]
Gurudāsa: Once I asked you that question in 1968, and you answered that Subhadrā sat on Kṛṣṇa's lap and smiled. That was her activity. [break]
Prabhupāda: ...maybe. Go on reading. [break] ...asac chāstram pracchanaṁ bauddham ucyate. The Māyāvāda is a very dangerous philosophy. It has made the whole world atheistic. [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Māyāvādam asac-chāstraṁ pracchanaṁ bauddham ucyate. They cannot understand that this is a dangerous philosophy.
Yaśomatīnandana: He comes to the maṅgala ārati, but then he says that you don't have to worship Kṛṣṇa.
Yaśomatīnandana: He comes to maṅgala ārati, but he says to us that "You don't have to go to worship Kṛṣṇa in the temple."
Prabhupāda: But we haven't got to learn from you. We have got better teacher than you.
Yaśomatīnandana: I told him like that.
Prabhupāda: [japa] [break] They'll talk of Kṛṣṇa so many things, but they're not devotees. Just like Kaṁsa. They may talk of Kṛṣṇa or think of Kṛṣṇa, but they don't accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme. Therefore they are demons. This is test. They'll read Bhagavad-gītā, but they'll not accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme. And that is the demonic. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā āsuriṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. Because they are demons, therefore their so-called knowledge is useless, apahṛta-jñāna. And apparently, they seem to be very learned scholar, but there is no knowledge. There is no knowledge. This is the demonic... Just like Rāvaṇa. He was very much advanced student in Vedic literature, but he was a demon. So simply by studying Vedas one does not become out of the jurisdiction of demons. Just like Jarāsandha. He was also worshiping Viṣṇu, but he was a demon. He was a demon. His purpose was different. The yajñic brāhmaṇas, they also could not understand Kṛṣṇa. So this is the crucial test. If one does not understand Kṛṣṇa and become submissive to surrender, he remains a demon, however big scholar he may be.
Indian man (1): There is a division of śāstra, Patel[?] and Parsees.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Don't mention anyone. This is the general definition.
Indian man (1): They were saying that you are not speaking Vedas.
Prabhupāda: What do they know about Vedas? If they did know, then they should have stuck up in family life, in kūpa-māṇḍukya and gṛhambhara. They do not know what is Vedas. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ [Bg. 15.15]. Vedas means to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is knowledge of Veda, in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Yaśomatīnandana: That is the special quality of Kali-yuga, that śūdra class people will take up the preaching of Vedas.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And even followers of Śaṅkarācārya... Śaṅkarācārya does not give anyone any recognition unless he's a sannyāsī. That is the strict principle of Śaṅkara-sampradāya. They are gṛhamedhi, and they are thinking they are advanced in spiritual consciousness. Śaṅkarācārya does not give anyone any position unless he is in the renounced order of life. [break]
Girirāja: ...sign of a great devotee is also to be always absorbed in...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore in their sampradāya it is a custom, as soon as he takes sannyāsa, he becomes Nārāyaṇa. "Namo nārāyaṇa." [laughs] That is an allurement. So this... Even one says that he is follower of Śaṅkarācārya, but there is no meaning in it. Unless one is a sannyāsī, he cannot say that he is follower of Śaṅkarācārya. Śaṅkarācārya took sannyāsa at the age of eight years.
Indian man (1): He died about thirty-nine.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Thirty-two. [break] ...what is the truth of life. Everyone. So somebody is taking sense gratification as truth of life. Somebody is taking mental speculation as truth of life. So many ways. But Bhāgavata says, satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi [SB 1.1.1]. We worship the Supreme Truth, namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. The Supreme Truth. Hmm.
Girirāja: "One who becomes..." [break]
Prabhupāda: ...say Brahman, oṁ. Not Rāma, Kṛṣṇa. No, they'll never say. Sometimes they say "Nārāyaṇa." That is, means thinking himself as Nārāyaṇa. [laughter] Daridra-nārāyaṇa, this nārāyaṇa, that nārāyaṇa, Swaminarayan.
Gurudāsa: Then they want to serve Nārāyaṇa.
Passerby: Jaya Rāmaji. Jaya Rāmaji. Jaya Rāmaji.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Gurudāsa: Then they..., then they take the philosophy, "I want to serve Nārāyaṇa."
Prabhupāda: No, "I want to become Nārāyaṇa."
Gurudāsa: Yes, then they want to serve themselves.
Prabhupāda: Not "serve Nārāyaṇa." "I want to become Nārāyaṇa."
Gurudāsa: If they are Nārāyaṇa, they serve themselves. So then they serve Nārāyaṇa.
Indian man (1): [Hindi]
Prabhupāda: [Hindi] [break] There you see the Sarasvatī. Sarasvatī, she asks anybody, "Do you know Kṛṣṇa?" He will say, "No, I do not know..." "The Supreme Personality of Godhead." [laughter] She... That is preaching. And she'll collect some money and bring it to me. From the very childhood. [break] ...evāsam āgre. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. "And when everything will be finished, I'll stay." That is Kṛṣṇa. Janmādyasya yataḥ. The Vedānta-sūtra says that "He is the cause of creation, maintenance and annihilation." Brahmā, Viṣṇu, Maheśvara. [break] One who takes shelter of that birth, who is not interested in this distress and happiness, he also becomes of this mad-bhāva. That verse?
Gurudāsa: Mad-bhāva yānti mām.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Vīta-rāga-bhaya-śoka, mad-bhāva upagamya. Bahu... What is that? I forget now, this... Vīta... Yajña... Pūtā... Pūtā mad-bhāvam adhigacchati. Mad-bhāvam means by devotional service one attains the nature of Kṛṣṇa---no more interested with the material distress and material happiness. That does not affect them. That is the... That is also stated in another place of Bhagavad-gītā:
bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate
sa guṇān samatītyaitān
bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate
sa guṇān samatītyaitān
He also becomes brahma-bhūta [Bg. 18.54]. Just like if you be in touch with the fire, then you become also warm. The quality of fire is warm. So if you keep yourself always, constantly in touch with the fire, you also become warm. So this Kṛṣṇa's qualification, that He's not affected by the material happiness and distress, can be attained by anyone who always keeps his association with Kṛṣṇa. Is it clear?
Prabhupāda: Yes. [break] ...prasannātmā. Brahma-bhūta... That is called brahma-bhūta stage. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 12.17]. This happiness and distress is the cause of śocati and kāṅkṣati. Kāṅkṣati means desiring to have something. This is distress. And lamenting for something, that is also distress. Actually, this is the material position. When we haven't got the things, we desire it. That is also distress. And when it is lost, that is also distress. But by illusion, they take it. When they get it, they think that it is happiness. This is māyā. Actually, to get the things, he has to undergo so much hard... A man is given credit... Suppose he was a poor man; he has now become multi-millionaire. He is given credit. But he does not see that he has simply passed through distress. But he... By illusion, he's thinking that he's happy. He's also thinking, and others also thinking, that "He has become happy." But actually it is distress. Hare Kṛṣṇa. [japa] [break] ...people become religious not for attaining the transcendental stage, but for material benefit, dharma, the artha. Artha means material opulence, that. They... These four things = dharma artha kāma mokṣa [SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90]. And why they want artha? To satisfy their senses. Dharma artha kāma... And when they're again baffled, they want mukti, to become one with the Supreme. These are the four different tastes of the material. All, all of them are baffling and illusory. The so-called religiosity with a view to get some material profit, that comes everywhere. Just in Christianity, the religion means, "O God, give us our daily bread," material profit. Similarly, in anywhere, they go for material benefit. Therefore this kind of religion, it is also good, but it not first class. The first-class religion is sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje [SB 1.2.6], when one is awakened to the devotional service of the Lord, ahaitukī apratihatā, without any cause and without being impeded. So ahaitukī apratihatā... That is, that stage is required. Not that "My sense gratification is not done here. Oh, let us give up this company." That is sense gratification. [laughs]
Girirāja: [reading] "According to the different associations in the three modes of material nature, the living entities are tasting different kinds of religiosity..." [break] "...kinds of..."
Prabhupāda: That religiosity also different kinds = rājasika, tāmasika, and sattvika, according to one's nature. The sattvikas, they worship Viṣṇu. The rājasika, they worship the demigods. And the tāmasika, they worship bhūta, preta, piśāca...
Prabhupāda: Demons. You'll see the Muhammadans, they worship the tomb. And Christian also, they worship the tomb. They offer wreath on the tomb. So tāmasika. What is there in the tomb? But because they're tāmasika, they're worshiping like that. And this, this so-called incarnation worship, is also tāmasika. By tāmasika, in darkness they accept somebody as incarnation, and they worship. This is tāmasika.
Gurudāsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Gurudāsa: If someone said to us that "You are worshiping samādhi," what is the answer?
Prabhupāda: Samādhi, we are offering respect to the ācāryas. Yes. Not that we are simply worshiping samādhi. We are worshiping Kṛṣṇa also, side by side. It is not that... Their samādhi worship is finished. That is ācārya. Ācārya is, although worshiped as the Supreme Lord, but the Lord is also worshiped. And these Māyāvādīs, they give up the worship of Lord. So therefore they are Māyāvādīs. In Māyāvādī temple you'll find the picture of the guru and not the picture of Kṛṣṇa. I have seen in Surat, one temple of "Rāma." There is no Rāma. Guru is Rāma. That's all. Guru brahma, [Hindi] [break] ...caittya-guru, because he has merged into the existence of Lord, he has become Lord. "Merging Lord. Daridra-nārāyaṇa, merging nārāyaṇa." This is...
Yaśomatīnandana: The Jains have the same kind of philosophy also.
Prabhupāda: Everyone. All philosophies, they are more or less Māyāvāda. All Māyāvāda, different types of Māyāvāda philosophy. Therefore they should be discarded. [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa. Thank you very much. What you are? All students?
Students: Yes. [indistinct]
Prabhupāda: You have seen our temple?
Student: Not seen your temple.
Prabhupāda: So? You are not interested in Kṛṣṇa philosophy?
Indian man (2): That's right. They are very interested.
Prabhupāda: The... Every young boy, or even young child... Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha [SB 7.6.1]. And that is the instruction of Prahlāda Mahārāja. He was a five-years-old child, and he was teaching his class friend Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So in that teaching he said... The other children, they said, "Why you are teaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Let us play." So he answered, "No, no, my dear friends. Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha. This science, bhagavat-dharma, should be learned from the very beginning of life." That is Vedic culture. Brahmacārīs, they were living at the place of guru and learning this science. That is Vedic culture. [break] ...boys of Europe and America, they are accepting this Vedic culture. Why you are keeping aloof? What is the reason?
Indian man (2): They are praying, but not showing.
Prabhupāda: I do not follow.
Satsvarūpa: They are praying, but not showing.
Prabhupāda: Oh. So they are showing only?
Indian man (2): No, no, no. You do not understand my point.
Indian man (2): That means we pray at home.
Prabhupāda: Pray at home?
Indian man (2): Yeah.
Indian man (2): Not secretly. Just before others.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. That's all right. If you are praying, it is all right. But our proposal is that you have to understand the science. Prayer is very good, but if one offers prayer after knowing the science, that is very good.
Indian man (2): So we are also giving the knowledge about the science, science of Kṛṣṇa philosophy.
Devotee: Are we giving the knowledge?
Devotee (2): Giving knowledge about science.
Yaśomatīnandana: He means material science.
Prabhupāda: Material science? No, no, I am talking of Kṛṣṇa science.
Indian man (2): About the existence of God.
Prabhupāda: Not only existence. What is God, first of all. He must exist. Otherwise, where there is question of "What is God?" So what is the nature of God, what is our position, what is our relationship with God, what is our duty and what is the goal of life, these things are very thoroughly discussed in Bhagavad-gītā. So if we understand Bhagavad-gītā very nicely, then we understand the whole science of God. Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break] ...that Kṛṣṇa comes, descends personally, to settle up the contention whether God is person or imperson. So even the Kṛṣṇa's presence cannot convince these Māyāvādīs, poor fund of knowledge, that Kṛṣṇa..., the Supreme Lord is person.
Girirāja: [reading] "Somehow people can understand the different incarnations of Your Lordship, but they are puzzled to understand the eternal form of Kṛṣṇa with two hands, moving among human beings exactly like one of them." [break]
Prabhupāda: ...them, the form is meant for killing them, [chuckles] chastising them. Therefore dangerous. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām [Bg. 4.8]. So for the nondevotees the form is very dangerous. Sadā paśyanti yoginaḥ. Yogīs, they concentrate their mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. That is real yoga. [break] ...boat, he crossed over.
samāśritā ye pada-pallava-plavaṁ
mahat-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ
bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padaṁ paraṁ padaṁ
padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām
mahat-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ
bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padaṁ paraṁ padaṁ
padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām
This is the process.
Mahāṁsa: This śloka is... Where is that śloka, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: It is in the Tenth Canto. Bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padam. Just like this ocean, if it becomes a small pit, then don't require a big ship to cross over. You just... Like this. It can be reduced. By Kṛṣṇa's desire, it can be done so. Just like at the present moment... Formerly, people used to go to London from India, from Bombay, at least in fifteen days. Now it doesn't take even fifteen hours. It takes only nine hours. How it has been reduced? Because there is a process to reduce. Similarly, the supreme spiritual process is like that. It can be reduced to any quantity. Aṇi... This is called aṇimā-siddhi. It can be expanded also, to the greatest length. Mahimā-śakti. All-powerful means not that "I cannot do. I cannot..., I can do this only." No, anything He can do. That is all-powerful. Aṇimā, laghimā, mahimā. Just like all these big, big planets, they are floating in the sky. This is called laghimā, weightless, no weight. Those who are going to the moon planet, they are finding out weightlessness. How it has become weightless? Such a big, huge... Just this planet, with so many seas and mountains and cities and buildings, but it is floating. That's a fact. It is floating like a swan. How it is floating? You can say something nonsense, but the actual fact is this.
Mahāṁsa: You give the example in Nectar of Devotion...
Mahāṁsa: ...that when the..., dead bodies will sink in the water, but a live..., when the body has life, it can float on water. So when Kṛṣṇa enters...
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Mahāṁsa: ...material nature, it can become weightless.
Prabhupāda: Yes. A dead body immediately goes down in the water, but a living body floats. So this is the example, that because viṣṭabhyāham idaṁ kṛtsnam ekāṁśena sthita [Bg. 10.42]. Because Kṛṣṇa enters this material world as Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, as Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, therefore it floats. Just like this aeroplane = it is floating so long the pilot is there. If the pilot is not there, it will not float, however good machine it may be. It will not float; it will come down. These are the ex... [break] ...soul, the spiritual spark, even in minute quantity, it can float the heaviest matter. This is the conclusion. [break] ...so high, and if the pilot is killed some way or other, no more floating, come down.
Mahāṁsa: So this laghimā siddhi is also being attained by the material scientists?
Mahāṁsa: This is also a siddhi, that they can invent a plane...?
Prabhupāda: Yes. To some extent.
Mahāṁsa: To some extent.
Prabhupāda: By material arrangement... The yogīs can do still more. Without any material machine, they can float. They can walk on the water, becomes light. [break] ...man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. This is the process.
[break] ...colleges, the students are being educated there is no God. And they expect good behavior from them. And when they set fire in the bus, that is..., "The students are so dangerous now." But you have made them dangerous, the educational system. They are protesting against the existence of God. [break] ...so-called svāmīs. And they are also accelerating, "Yes, no more. There is no God. Why you are searching God anywhere? There are so many Gods loitering in the street. They are God." That is the statement of Vivekananda. "Why you are finding out, trying to find out God elsewhere. These are Gods." You see? [break] ...if required, one may come, very easily, one may take some time. But we should go on preaching.
Indian man (3): No, exactly. We should not do anything...
Prabhupāda: No. [break] ...American, rude. That is my experience. He may not agree with my philosophy. [break] ...the reason is that they are not poverty-stricken. Yes. When one becomes poverty-stricken, his all good qualities become null and void. Daridra-doṣa guṇa-rāśi nāśī. Our country is now poverty-stricken; therefore we have lost our all good qualities. [break] ...loss is that we have lost our culture, original Vedic culture. That is the greatest loss. When the culture was that one man was trying to kill one cow, and immediately Mahārāja Parīkṣit wanted to take step against him. Now just see how much that culture has gone down. Here ten thousand, twelve thousand cows are being killed regularly under government management. You see? [break] ...for stopping cow-killing.
Indian man (3): But even then they don't listen.
Prabhupāda: No. Even Gandhi refused. Gandhi was approached by the..., "Mahatmaji, you can stop this cow-killing." He replied, "How can I stop? It is their religion." Just see. [break] ...kṛṣi go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.44]. This is the duty of the vaiśyas.
Indian man (3): Killing of the cow, there is no...
Prabhupāda: Eh? [break] But who supplies the cow to us?
Indian man (3): They are Hindus.
Prabhupāda: They are Hindus. [break]
[in car] ...traveling with a Muhammadan. At that time there was no Second Class, Inter Class, or Second Class I was. So that Muhammadan gentleman, when he called for that food supply, so he was asking very..., "Is there any meat, cow's flesh?" "No, no, sir. No, sir." "That's all right." [end]