Prabhupāda: my sister. And you have seen in the Mullik Ṭhākura-bhati[?], Ratha-yātrā?
Indian man (1): Yes.
Prabhupāda: So after my festival of Ratha-yātrā the other boys in the Mulliks, they began. My ratha was, I think, this much high, very nicely made.
Acyutānanda: When we had Ratha-yātrā in Calcutta we stopped in front of your house, and they had that ratha decorated in the doorway. And we turned the ratha towards the house, and they came out and did ārāti, the Mullik family, Śyāmasundara.
Prabhupāda: So there was good festival, saṅkīrtana, and procession. We all little children enjoyed. And eight days, my mother was cooking different foodstuff for Jagannātha. Then return Ratha-yātrā. Ratha-yātrā means...
Yaśomatīnandana: Fifteen days festival.
Acyutānanda: Eight days.
Prabhupāda: No, eight days. From dvitīya to daśama. Ratha-yātrā...
nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād
bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt
ka uttama-śloka-guṇānuvādāt
pumān virajyeta vinā paśughnāt
[SB 10.1.4]
Indian man (1): Yes, comment. [break]
Prabhupāda: Yes. Upagīyamānāt.
Girirāja: [reading] "In these Western countries, when someone sees the cover of a book like Kṛṣṇa, he immediately asks, 'Who is Kṛṣṇa? Who is the girl with Kṛṣṇa?' " [break]
Prabhupāda: ...upagīyamānāt. Uttama-śloka-guṇānuvādā. Uttama-śloka-guṇānuvādāt. Uttama-śloka is Kṛṣṇa, who is worshiped by selected verses. So uttama-śloka-guṇānuvādā is executed by nivṛtta-tarsaiḥ. Nivṛtta-tarsaiḥ. Nivṛtti means ceasing; tṛṣṇa means material desires. Nivṛtti-tarṣair upagīyamānād. So this uttamaśloka-guṇanuvada, praising the Supreme, Uttamaśloka, is done by the nivṛtta-tarsaiḥ. Nivṛtta-tarsaiḥ means one who has ceased material desires. He can chant. He can glorify. But it is not for ordinary, mundane people. Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād bhavauṣādhi chrotra-mano 'bhirāmāt. And this chanting is bhavauṣādhi. There is some... [break] ...of holy name or glorifying the Lord is the medicine for this material disease. Material disease means repetition of birth and death. To stop this repetition of birth and death, this is the only remedy. And this is used by liberated persons. So such a nice thing, who can refrain from it? Vinā paśughnāt [SB 10.1.4]. Unless one is animal killer, one cannot cease from this business. Therefore animal killing is so sinful.
nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād
bhavauṣādhi chrotra-mano 'bhirāmāt
ka uttama-śloka-guṇānuvādāt
...virajyeta vinā paśughnāt
[SB 10.1.4]
Go on.
Girirāja: "In these Western countries, when someone sees the cover of a book like Kṛṣṇa, he immediately asks, 'Who is Kṛṣṇa? Who is the girl with Kṛṣṇa?' and so on." [break]
Prabhupāda: ...Kṛṣṇa is all-attractive or God is all-attractive. This definition given by Parāśara Muni is a supreme perfect definition. Unless God is attractive, how He can be God? This argument, what do you think?
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa showed this attractiveness in full. [break] ...any question you can ask. [break]
Bhāgavata: ...expansion or incarnation has the six opulences in full except for Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: No, no. Kṛṣṇa is cent percent. Next to Kṛṣṇa is Nārāyaṇa. Next to Kṛṣṇa... Next to Nārāyaṇa is Lord Śiva.
Acyutānanda: Lord Caitanya did not manifest so much opulence as Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: No, Lord Caitanya appeared as a devotee. How He can show the opulence of Kṛṣṇa? Sometimes He showed. But He was playing the part, bhaktākhyaṁ bhaktāvatāraṁ namāmi bhakta-śaktikam [Cc. Ādi 1.14].
Bhāgavata: Some of the different incarnations, though, they manifest one of the different opulences or two, like that, isn't it?
Prabhupāda: Yes. All the opulences, not in full.
Acyutānanda: So what opulence does Kṛṣṇa have that Nārāyaṇa doesn't have? Those four, but what of the six?
Prabhupāda: The attraction by playing flute, in the rāsa dance. In this way there are four principles. That is mentioned in the Caitanya caritamrta. [aside = ] Hare Kṛṣṇa
Acyutānanda: But otherwise Nārāyaṇa has all the six opulences.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Superexcellent opulence in Kṛṣṇa, by His veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda-dalāyatākṣam [Bs. 5.30]. That attraction is only in Kṛṣṇa. [break] ...scientist, we say the same thing.
Girirāja: Yes. He has spent his life...
Bhāgavata: He has spent his whole life, twenty-five years, studying so hard.
Prabhupāda: When he said this?
Bhāgavata: In 1972. His name is Professor Leakey. He is from, I think, America. And he has found in Kenya one skull two million years old. [break]
Prabhupāda: [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break] ...when our book was published?
Girirāja: This was in about seventy...
Bhāgavata: 1970 it came out. [break]
Prabhupāda: discover.
Girirāja: March 31st, 1970.
Prabhupāda: So? [break] ...civilization.
Bhāgavata: You are giving all the information, cent percent. [break]
Prabhupāda: ...Darwin's theory is that from that lower animals to go to the higher animals, but in the creation we find Brahmā is the first creation. So he is the topmost intelligent man.
Bhāgavata: Is there anything in the Vedic literature which supports Darwin's theory at all?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Bhāgavata: Is there anything...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bhāgavata: There is.
Prabhupāda: Not Darwin's theory.
Bhāgavata: Not Darwin's theory.
Prabhupāda: Darwin's theory is no explanation that whose evolution. Evolution is of the soul. The soul is changing in different bodies, one body better than the other. That kind of evolution.
Acyutānanda: Darwin has no individual evolution, but the evolution of a species. Like they say there were horses, and then when they had eaten up all the food on the ground, so they started to get the food on the trees, so their necks became longer. And those with longer necks lived, and the others died. So then there were the giraffes. So they moved like that. "Survival of the fittest." That's his theory. He said the stronger... Then the more intelligent animals will live more than the less intelligent. So they will die out, and then they will be up to the human. But that doesn't explain why there are still lower species of life, that why are there still animals. [break]
Girirāja: [reading] "...scriptures we are given the histories of Kṛṣṇa's appearances and disappearances millions and millions of years ago. In the Fourth Chapter of the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa tells Arjuna that both He and Arjuna had many births before, and that He, Kṛṣṇa, could remember all of them and that Arjuna could not. This illustrates the difference between the knowledge of Kṛṣṇa and that of Arjuna. Arjuna might have been a very great warrior, a well-cultured member of the Kuru dynasty..." [break]
Acyutānanda: In the last part of Bhagava..., Kṛṣṇa book, Mahā-Viṣṇu says that Arjuna is of the capacity of Nara-nārāyaṇa. So they are avatāras also.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Acyutānanda: But as Arjuna He acts as an ordinary jīva?
Prabhupāda: Yes, there are different types of śaktyāveṣa avatāra. So when an ordinary jīva is specially empowered, he is called śaktya aveṣa avatāra, śatktyaveṣa avatāra, vibhūti. Yad yad vibhūtimat sattvam [Bg. 10.41]. He is living entity, but specially empowered. Just like for certain business I give sometimes somebody power of attorney, that "He will do this. He will sign for me." Like that. He is also one of the disciples, but for particular purpose he is given the power of attorney. In this way, when a living entity is empowered specifically to do something, that is called śaktyāveṣa avatāra. Aveṣa avatāra. Kṛṣṇa śakti vinā nāhe nāma pracāra. That is explained in the... These are explained in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. [break] ...śaktya. Mama tejo-'ṁśa-sambhavam. So śaktyāveṣa avatāra is not viṣṇu-tattva; he is jīva-tattva. So the Lord Jesus Christ or Lord Buddha, they come within the jīva-tattva special power.
Bhāgavata: They are śaktyāveṣa avatāras.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Acyutānanda: So Nara-Nārāyaṇa Ṛṣi is which?
Prabhupāda: Nara-Nārāyaṇa Ṛṣi was a ṣaktyāveṣa avatāra.
Acyutānanda: So Arjuna has no constitutional connection with them, but at that time he was equal, by deputed potency. But they are individuals.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Arjuna is also... Yes, equal to Nara-Nārāyaṇa. [break] Nara-Nārāyaṇa. Somewhere, I think.
Girirāja: [reading] "Kṛṣṇa's knowledge is so perfect that He remembers all the incidences of His appearances some millions and billions of years in the past. But Arjuna's memory and knowledge are limited by time and space, for he is an ordinary human being." [break]
Prabhupāda: ...Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa did not become God by the so-called meditation or mystic power. He has already all this yogeśvara. All mystic powers are already there. [break] ...that man?
Girirāja: Does He also appear through Mahā-Viṣṇu? When Kṛṣṇa appears, it says that...
Prabhupāda: Yes. He appeared through Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu.
Girirāja: Oh.
Bhāgavata: But He's still the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Prabhupāda: He appeared... Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He appeared through Yaśodā, I mean Śacīmata. That does not mean that He has appeared through. The sun rises from the eastern side. It does not mean the eastern side is producing sun. [break]
Yaśomatīnandana: When Kṛṣṇa appeared, He could assume any other incarnation's form---Lord Rāmacandra, Lord Varāha, Lord...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yaśomatīnandana: But Lord Rāmacandra could not assume Lord Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: No. Lord Rāmacandra also can do. They are all full powerful.
Bhāgavata: Oh, Rāmacandra is full opulences.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. But Rāmacandra, the full opulence was not exhibited. There was no necessity. But it is not that He could not. Yes.
Girirāja: So at the end of the Kṛṣṇa book, when Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna visit Lord Viṣṇu and Viṣṇu calls them incarnations of Himself, that is because Kṛṣṇa appeared through Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu?
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is acintya-bhedābheda, simultaneously one and different. [break] ...covering of the universe.
Yaśomatīnandana: These what?
Prabhupāda: Covering of the universe. There are seven coverings. Each covering is ten times bigger than the one. Again, the seven elements.
Girirāja: So at night when we look up, everything that we see is within this universe.
Prabhupāda: Yes, within this universe. Yes. And there are innumerable universes.
Girirāja: [reading] "And beyond that non-manifested matter there is the spiritual kingdom. That kingdom is described in the Bhagavad-gītā as supreme and eternal. It is never annihilated. This material nature is subjected to..." [break]
Acyutānanda: entities in not..., non-manifested matter? Are there any living entities in non-mani...
Prabhupāda: No, therefore it is non-manifested. There is no living entities. It is simply covering.
Acyutānanda: So the living entities only appear within the universes, not outside the universes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, in the spiritual world there are living entities.
Acyutānanda: But in the...
Prabhupāda: Yes, in the covering, in the...
Acyutānanda: Is there some part of Lord Śiva that is there in between?
Prabhupāda: Not in between. That is also after that. Sadā-ṣiva. Just on the border, on the border.
Bhāgavata: Where is Śiva? On the border. Before you reach earth, the element of earth.
Prabhupāda: Yes. On the border between spiritual world and material world.
Bhāgavata: On the Virajā River? That is where Kailāsa-dhāma is.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yaśomatīnandana: Are there different Kailāsa-dhāmas? Like, is there any Kailāsa-dhāma in a particular universe also?
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is. Just like there is Vṛndāvana, similarly, there is Kailāsa-dhāma. [break]
Acyutānanda: ...there are earth planets. There are many other planets in the earth level?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Acyutānanda: But Kṛṣṇa only comes to this planet?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Acyutānanda: So this is very special planet.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Vṛndāvana.
Acyutānanda: And every time Lord Kṛṣṇa appears, original Kṛṣṇa appears, does Lord Caitanya appear on the following Kali-yuga?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Acyutānanda: Every time.
Prabhupāda: Yes. [break]
Yaśomatīnandana: ...the twenty-eighth day of Brahmā. [break]
Prabhupāda: ...Yes. Twenty-eighth or twenty-seventh. Twenty-seventh Dvāpara-yuga. [japa] [break] Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām [Bg. 4.8]. This is kṣatriya's business = to establish religious principles and to kill the demons. This is kṣatriya's business. And Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He appeared as a brāhmaṇa. So He did not kill anybody. Although He was just about to kill Jagāi and Mādhāi, but Nityānanda Prabhu restrained, that "In this incarnation You have promised not to kill." [break] I know I wrote him that letter.
Bhāgavata: Gandhi.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That "You now preach Bhagavad-gītā." But he would not do that. Go on. [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Girirāja: [reading] "...Kṛṣṇa will be appealing to the liberated souls and to persons who are trying to be liberated, as well as to the gross conditioned materialists. According to the statement of Mahārāja Parīkṣit, who heard about Kṛṣṇa from Śukadeva Gosvāmī, kṛṣṇa-kathā is equally applicable to every human being, in whatever condition of life he is in. Everyone will appreciate it to the highest magnitude. But..." [break] [end]