Nitāi: [testing tape]
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Indian man (1): every house.
Prabhupāda: Self-help, self-help.
Indian man (1): They're distributing in every house, how to do benefit everybody in the house.
Dr. Patel: But if it is right for them, why not have fields in every house and grow your food also? That is not possible every time on the way. You have got to have a... This is a highly developed society. So you have got to...
Prabhupāda: And because now it is developed, it is so developed that there is no food. Eh? It is so developed that there is no food. One devotee of Goddess Durgā... He was a worshiper of Goddess Durgā. So Mother Durgā was asking, "My dear son, you are happy?" "Oh, Mother, in all respects, except in two things = there is no food, there is no cloth. That's all. Otherwise I am very happy."
Indian man (1): So the main thing is not that.
Prabhupāda: [laughs] So your, your advancement means advancement in everything, but there is no food, there is no cloth. That's all. This is advancement.
Dr. Patel: And there was no rain here last year. No? Year before last. [Hindi] The men in the medical college were talking, "Why the hell do you want rain?" I said "What nonsense you are talking?" "We don't want. Our fields are in America. The rain is falling there all right." You know, jokingly. [laughs] There is no other... "Why do you want rain here?" Because people...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Rain, rain...
Dr. Patel: Yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ [Bg. 3.14].
Prabhupāda: Yes. But they won't, won't perform yajña.
Dr. Patel: No. And yajña means there is service to the humanity...
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. That is not...
Dr. Patel: "That is giving service to Kṛṣṇa," you'll say. "But humanity is Kṛṣṇa," I say.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no.
Dr. Patel: And then we quarrel. So we stop there. [laughs]
Prabhupāda: That's all.
Dr. Patel: You see... Yajña...
Prabhupāda: Yajñārthe karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ [Bg. 3.9]. [Hindi]
Dr. Patel: Wrongfully, wrongfully is not yajña.
Prabhupāda: What is wrongfully? Everyone is trying. The state is trying.
Dr. Patel: Everything is God. Ahaṁ kratur ahaṁ yajñaḥ ahaṁ ghṛtam. "Everything I am." That is Kṛṣṇa, no? And in the very next verse He says...
Prabhupāda: But when there is remembrance of Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: That is right.
Prabhupāda: Aham. That "aham" must be there.
Dr. Patel: In the name of God, you do, and you forget that you are doing. Two things, that is yajña. That you are not the performer...
Prabhupāda: Not... No, you cannot..., you cannot manufacture yajña. The yajña-vidhi is there, in the Vedas, śāstras. You cannot say that "I am doing for God. That is yajña." Yajña-vidhi. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ, na sukhaṁ sa avāpnoti [Bg. 16.23]. He cannot get happiness if he derides śāstra, yajña-vidhi. You cannot manufacture yajña-vidhi.
Dr. Patel: Kṛṣṇa's life itself was a yajña.
Prabhupāda: No, then there was no need of Bhagavad-gītā. Anyone can manufacture his yajña.
Dr. Patel: Yajña. But the very life of Kṛṣṇa was a yajña. He said that. Ahaṁ yajñaḥ. Ahaṁ kratur aham ajyam... What is that? I forgot that...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Ahaṁ yajña, but who is following Kṛṣṇa? That is the question.
Dr. Patel: He follows, you follow, I follow.
Prabhupāda: No, no, any...
Dr. Patel: You follow, I follow means I follow Kṛṣṇa. [laughs]
Prabhupāda: Means nobody follows. Because Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Who is doing that?
Dr. Patel: Here dharma means all actions...
Prabhupāda: Dharma means occupational duties.
Dr. Patel: Actions.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Duty. Dharma means duty.
Dr. Patel: "You give up all other actions and do actions for Me."
Prabhupāda: Dharma does not mean so-called some religious fanaticism. Dharma means occupational duty. Just like you are medical man. You are practiced medical dharma. Medical dharma.
Dr. Patel: So I went yesterday early, after quarreling. [laughs]
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's all right. No, that's all right. One must... Just like Arjuna. Arjuna was a fighter. His dharma was to fight.
Dr. Patel: [Hindi] Fighter... I am wrongly placed in the medical profession. [laughs]
Prabhupāda: No. Dharma means one's sva-kar... Just like varṇāśrama-dharma.
Dr. Patel: That is the real dharma.
Prabhupāda: Yes. According to varṇa and āśrama. That is called varṇāśrama-dharma.
Dr. Patel: The greatest gift to the humanity is varṇāśrama-dharma by the ancient culture of India.
Prabhupāda: No, it is given by God.
Dr. Patel: Whatever it is... But I mean, that is the greatest gift.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Varṇāśrama-dharma. And I don't know why people don't follow it.
Prabhupāda: But there is no guidance. There is no guidance.
Dr. Patel: Even imperceptibly one āśrama may be following..., is followed by Western countries. They have got all the [indistinct] though they are not putting on [indistinct] and all. [Hindi] But this is..., presently we are living in Kali-yuga.
Prabhupāda: Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. Varṇāśrama-dharma is there, but it is not organized. Varṇa... Because it is made by God, mayā sṛṣṭam, it cannot be violated. So... But it in a perverted way. Therefore you are suffering.
Dr. Patel: But in old days, I think, this varṇāśrama-dharma was followed...
Prabhupāda: Strictly.
Dr. Patel: I am reading the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Therein so many princes turned into brāhmaṇas, and so many brāhmaṇas turned into daityas.
Prabhupāda: But that is...
Dr. Patel: It was by action.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Guṇa, guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. Not by birth. Guṇa-karma. Just like you are kṣatriya, but because you have acquired the qualification of medical man and you are working as a medical man, therefore you are medical man. Nobody asked you, "You are a kṣatriya or you are a brāhmaṇa?" You are a medical man.
Dr. Patel: Medical... You know, I think medical work, is it brahminical or śūdrical?
Prabhupāda: That we shall consider later on.
Dr. Patel: [laughs] 'Cause I'll not say now so that I will drive out my doubt about me.
Prabhupāda: It is half-brāhmaṇa.
Dr. Patel: No, that is all right. At least, little brāhmaṇa is good.
Indian man (2): It is vaidyic. All vaidyas are brāhmaṇas.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, vaidyas means father brāhmaṇa, mother śūdra. That is vaidya.
Dr. Patel: They are sūtas.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Sūtas are brāhmaṇa mother and father, father kṣatriya. These sūt... No? Those brāhmaṇas were sūtas.
Prabhupāda: No. Sūtas means carpenter. Śūdra. [japa] [break] ...government minister, he has frankly said that "We do not want you to grow here." You know that?
Dr. Patel: Who is that minister?
Prabhupāda: The Home Minister, Havas[?], in Delhi.
Dr. Patel: Oh, Delhi.
Prabhupāda: The government is against our movement. Because they are teaching, "Drink wine, eat meat," and we are teaching no meat-eating. How they will approve of our movement?
Dr. Patel: Not only that. We have just now talked about teaching meat. This government of Maharashtra has created an institution, government institution, which are feeding pigs for selling, meat, and poultry. It could have been done by any private institution outside. Why, eh?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: I don't know why they... So they are all śūdras, these, these daityas.
Prabhupāda: Not śūdras. They are less than śūdras.
Dr. Patel: Actually, they are the relatives of...
Prabhupāda: Mleccha. They have been described in the Bhāgavata = mlecchā rājanya-rūpiṇaḥ. Mlecchas, they will assume as kṣatriya government. Mlecchā rājanya-rūpiṇaḥ. Bhakṣayiṣyanti prajās te mlecchā rājanya-rūpiṇaḥ [SB 12.1.40].
Dr. Patel: These fellows created such a horrible state. They actually broke down the temple.
Prabhupāda: That is a...
Dr. Patel: Why? Why? Why? What, what wrong these boys are doing to them? If any wrong is done to them, it is done by me because I am giving so much botheration to them.
Prabhupāda: No, no. It is that wrong that we are preaching no meat-eating, no intoxication. We are the greatest criminal.
Dr. Patel: No, no, not that.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: They are rascals.
Prabhupāda: But who is accepting they are? They are still getting votes.
Dr. Patel: They'll not get vote now. That Dundubhi said they'll not get. Dundubhi... No, they will not. [Hindi] The people have so much opposed them now, the present government, I think there will be right government next election. The election itself is a sort of a great, I mean, mockery committed on the people.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That I always said.
Dr. Patel: It's a demagogy.
Prabhupāda: Then on the election, the votes given by some...
Dr. Patel: Ignorant people.
Prabhupāda: ...ignorant people. What is the value?
Dr. Patel: You see, if you go in the Assembly...
Prabhupāda: Formerly a king was elected by great sages, saintly person, brāhmaṇas. Kings were elected. And as soon as he deviated from the śāstric principle, he was kicked out.
Dr. Patel: That is right. But we don't want to follow that varnasrama, then [indistinct] rāma-rājya.
Prabhupāda: Then suffer! Then suffer! If your patient does not follow your instruction, he must suffer.
Dr. Patel: He will die.
Prabhupāda: That's all.
Dr. Patel: And this institution is going to die. This government, this Congress government, is going... I think the world over this is the...
Prabhupāda: No, it is world over.
Dr. Patel: This robbing even in America or England or in Continental countries also, the same.
Prabhupāda: The other countries, they were never following.
Dr. Patel: Worst are these Muslim countries. They kill each other and come into the power. Still they are following their forefathers. They are truthful to them.
Prabhupāda: [japa]
Dr. Patel: We should go there. And here.
Prabhupāda: A little more?
Dr. Patel: So I am trying to associate with them because here is a guru who is trying to spread the real religion to the foreign countries.
Prabhupāda: Thank you very much.
Dr. Patel: Sometimes I don't, I mean, they don't like me, because I am a man who talks non..., sometimes out like a Patel. But still I love them because they are sādhus, and you know we must love some...
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is a poetry, Cowper = "England, with all thy faults, I love you."
Dr. Patel: No. They may not be liking me because sometimes I am very much opposing them, but...
Prabhupāda: That is also loving.
Dr. Patel: But I tell you that this institution should be allowed to flourish so that your culture will spread the world over. Today, today the world is actually languishing under the wrong influence of the wrong culture.
Prabhupāda: [Hindi aside] Now Americans... and seriously considering about this movement. There are so many writings.
Dr. Patel: You are... As a matter of fact, you are improving their lot. The present boys in American universities, they are all LSD smokers. The other day I said that, and that boy said that LSD went from India, and so I became violent. Forgive me. I felt sorry later on, because I should not have expressed my temper before you...
Prabhupāda: No, the...
Dr. Patel: But I have held a little more temper than that also, when somebody tells a wrong thing.
Prabhupāda: No, this gañjā, gañjā went from here.
Dr. Patel: That, because it is produced in India.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And they made a chemical composition of gañjā. That is LSD.
Dr. Patel: No, no. LSD is not chemical. It is a synthetic.
Prabhupāda: Therefore similar effect. Because they are scientific, so instead of importing gañjā from India, they invented some chemical composition...
Dr. Patel: Even the professors are tired out of these boys. They smoke even in the classrooms, in their residences...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: their university camps and everywhere.
Prabhupāda: Now it is going to be legalized.
Dr. Patel: Smoking?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Just like they have legalized the prostitution.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Anything... Because it is vote. Majority wants. "All right. Make it legalized."
Dr. Patel: All, they have...
Prabhupāda: Same thing here even. Majority wants to be godless. So government is following that. Therefore they are against our movement. [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Namaskāra. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Now the vox populi. Majority wants to become drunkards. "All right, it is legalized." Majority wants prostitute hunters. "All right. It is legalized." This is government. No consideration morality or religion. Majority wants, it must be given.
Dr. Patel: No, but, I mean, it is all... It must fall. There is no culture. This is a total degeneration of the humanity at large.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They must suffer. And they're suffering. Still, they're blind.
Dr. Patel: So-called followers of Christianity actually killing Christ every day.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Why do you take Christianity? Everyone. Everyone.
Dr. Patel: No, but they are majority. They...
Prabhupāda: Everyone. Your Hindus also.
Dr. Patel: We have degenerated because we have been ruled by foreigners for so many years. But these fellows, being so free in thinking and doing things which they...
Prabhupāda: You see. Following of religious principle does not depend on foreign rule or home rule.
Dr. Patel: That does...
Prabhupāda: Ahaituky apratihatā. This is the description. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje, ahaituky apratihatā [SB 1.2.6]. One who follows actually. Just like we are following some principles. It cannot be checked by anyone. We do not accept anyone.
Dr. Patel: No, no. I think it is so, to my mind. Look at the history of India. After thousand years ready...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Religion does not depend on history. It does not depend on history. It depends on culture, how one is sincere.
Dr. Patel: But when one culture is infected by a dirty culture of other people, the culture gets spoiled. You know, you put one...
Prabhupāda: Just like you are medical man. During British rule, you were medical man, and home rule, you are medical man. It does not mean it has to be changed because the government has changed. One who is unscrupulous, he changes.
Dr. Patel: What I mean to say is culture. If you take, put a...
Prabhupāda: Anything. Culture, this religious culture...
Dr. Patel: If you put two rotten mangoes in a tokari of good mangoes, all will be rotten. That is what has happened to us.
Prabhupāda: So that means it is meant for the..., who cannot resist.
Dr. Patel: But that human, human, I mean, temperament is such. I mean this is easier to fall than to rise.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is all right.
Dr. Patel: So the humanity has fallen today. That is what has happened.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: At last. Not only here, but...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is, that is also another fault.
Dr. Patel: ...also another, America or England or, say, in Continent or European countries. Everywhere, including the all Oriental countries as well.
Prabhupāda: Where is... Mr. Sar? is not...? He's not come today?
Dr. Patel: No, he had not come. We were seven today, but they all went away from here. All were very busy. [break]
Prabhupāda: ...mleccha. Mlecchā rājanya-rūpiṇaḥ [SB 12.1.40]. Mlecchas will take the position of government.
Dr. Patel: [Hindi] [break]
Prabhupāda: ...he is concerned, he has done his duty. And he has promised to phone. Now it is his duty.
Dr. Patel: No, no. But Swāmījī, means we have to follow it up, no?
Prabhupāda: What following? We are following for the last four months. They are calling, "Come day, this date, that date." This is following.
Dr. Patel: I was a member of the Municipal Corporation of Bombay. I know that in ordinary course these rascals don't pass the plans for six and eight months. What do you say?
Prabhupāda: So how one gentleman can deal with rascals? That is another dilemma.
Dr. Patel: Very, very difficult.
Indian man (3): They told that within one month time we will do it, the municipal [indistinct]. But they will [indistinct] started no... for some special purpose, whatever it may be.
Dr. Patel: It is because you call it a temple. If you don't call it a temple, it's such [indistinct]... name...
Prabhupāda: How can I take..., tell false things?
Dr. Patel: No, that is what they are objecting.
Indian man (4): No, no. It must be a temple.
Dr. Patel: When I constructed this house, I wanted to make it into a sort of hospital and a nursing home. So they, "If you want nursing home, well, we won't pass it." Because my nephew was to come back to India. Now he is suffering in the States... [break]
Prabhupāda: That clerical staff, they are making budget. One clerk is saying, "No, no, it must be twenty lakhs." And another clerk says, "No, no, ten lakhs."
Indian man (4): The same thing here.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So these clerks settle up budget. And the minister says, "Now it is..." The ministers even tax their brain. This is... Whatever the lower staff, clerks...
Dr. Patel: They are brainless, sir, to tell the truth. The scum of the society has gone... The other day, I said, "Who are the ministers today?" The middle class of people, those rogues and rascals who followed Gandhijī.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: The highest people died out. We, who were young boys, we are, in our own ways, engaged in our own professions. The rascals. The rascals are the ministers. Am I right or wrong?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. From the beginning. From the beginning. Now, if you don't mind, I'll say, this Jawaharlal was rejected by his father. After coming from foreign country, he was simply after women. So his father thought that "This son is useless." So he was lying useless. So when Gandhi approached Motilal Nehru, that "Come and join," so he took the opportunity said "I am coming, settling up. You please take my son." So that is the beginning of Jawaharlal Nehru's life.
Dr. Patel: The whole co...
Prabhupāda: No, as you say, all the rascals joined, and they became big men.
Dr. Patel: But this particular community of Kashmiri brāhmaṇas, this type of people, they are the product of the local debauchery. I am sorry to say these words before a saint.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: But it is so, fact.
Prabhupāda: Nehru's family is Muhammadan family, everything Muhammadan. Yes. You know?
Dr. Patel: And those men...
Prabhupāda: His daughter, his daughter was kidnapped by Muhammadans. Not kidnapped; she willingly went.
Yaśomatīnandana: Whose daughter?
Prabhupāda: This Motilal Nehru's. Jawaharlal's sister.
Dr. Patel: Who was ambassador in America? Vijaya Laksmi Gandhi. In America only, in States also, she was always keeping fully drunk and all... These are the type of people ruling over.
Prabhupāda: She was not coming back from that Muhammadan. Only Gandhi intermediated.
Dr. Patel: Mahatmajī played a fool with her. Being a bāṇiyā he said that one wanted to..., had to be a Muslim. So Mahatmajī said he would ask that man to become a Hindu. "If he becomes Hindu, I don't mind. You marry her." And that fellow, the Muslim, would not become Hindu. And then he ran off. That is how it happened.
Prabhupāda: Yes. [break]
Dr. Patel: ...position of the Hindu culture as we have suffered from Muslims.
Prabhupāda: No, it is all gone.
Dr. Patel: That is why..., that is why you don't speak much of Muslims. But they are rogues and rascals, lower than...
Prabhupāda: No, we don't hate Muslims. I have got many students, Muslims.
Dr. Patel: No, we don't hate. I mean, what they have done in past, their forefathers. They have demolished so many temples. Because they did not... They were all jaṅgalī [Hindi].
Prabhupāda: And this is all going on. Even in the Kurus' family, the other party, how much wrong they did to the Pāṇḍavas. They insulted their wife, they took their kingdom, and so many... They sent them to the forest, banishment. What did they not do? It is not the question of Hindu-Muslim. It is the question of the man who is concerned.
Dr. Patel: Swami, you have got a soft kind of [indistinct].
Prabhupāda: Eh? Eh?
Dr. Patel: Soft kind of [indistinct].
Prabhupāda: No, no. For everybody. No, no. Because these are, these are designation. So our philosophy is sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Be free from all designations. Just like you are. You don't hate any particular patient because he's Hindu or Muslim.
Dr. Patel: I? I hate Muslims. I am telling the truth.
Prabhupāda: What kind of physician...?
Dr. Patel: I am their enemy number one. [Hindi conversation] If I have to... If I were a prime minister of this country, I would ask them to go to Pakistan.
Prabhupāda: No, no. As a physician...
Dr. Patel: They wanted Pakistan for themselves.
Prabhupāda: As a physician, you cannot deny...
Dr. Patel: As a physician, I will treat even animal...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That...
Dr. Patel: ...if he is dying. That is different story. But I won't...
Prabhupāda: So that is our position.
Dr. Patel: That is right.
Prabhupāda: That is our position.
Dr. Patel: That is... I am discharging my duty. But had I been a prime minister of this country, I would have discharged my duty that way.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We don't like Muslim culture, but...
Dr. Patel: But I, I hate them!
Prabhupāda: But...
Dr. Patel: Because... Because, to them... Pardon me interrupting. They, their culture is this. I consider every woman to be my sister, excepting my wife. They consider every woman equal to their wife excepting their sister. This is the difference between the two cultures.
Prabhupāda: So then... Why do you...? Mean, there are different, many cultures. But we are concerned with Kṛṣṇa culture, that's all.
Dr. Patel: That's right. Our, our..., this is a Kṛṣṇa culture. Kṛṣṇa religion says you have to take every women to be your mother or sister. But they don't take them to be... Excepting their own sister, everyone is equal to their wife. Am I right or wrong? Tell me that... No... I... That is why I hate them.
Prabhupāda: Nowadays, that is happening in your Hindu society also.
Dr. Patel: That is degeneration because they were contamin...
Yaśomatīnandana: They are now developing the same community.
Dr. Patel: They have, they have...
Yaśomatīnandana: Because the Muslims, they have all this. And now the Hindus, they...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Contaminated... They have contaminated the Hindu society by their contact, long contact.
Prabhupāda: Otherwise how the Hindus dared to demolish our temple?
Indian man (5): Yes. That is the main thing.
Prabhupāda: They are less than Muslims.
Dr. Patel: [Hindi conversation] This is, I tell you. That was a sort of a... We did not know how to act. [two people talking at once] This is how... Some people didn't... Some section of the people. Now Sonara, Sonara... So... They would not have earned. Otherwise they would not have touched anything. [Hindi] I told the [indistinct] people in Andheri. [Hindi] There are people do anything. But maybe not know; they did it unaware. And we got a shock when we learned next morning that temple was demolished. Not only the pillars were cut by gas. You know that pillars?
Yaśomatīnandana: For this temple, they raise so much objection, there is so much hassling, hassle.
Dr. Patel: They object because, you see [Hindi]. If you..., if your enmity is created, even your good qualities, I would look them as bad. That is what these people are doing somehow or other. I don't know how.
Prabhupāda: Doṣam icchanti pāmarāḥ.
Dr. Patel: Hmm.
Prabhupāda: Guṇam icchanti... [Hindi]
Dr. Patel: These are pāmarāḥ. That, all this thing happened because that man, that... What is his name? Who happened to be now the minister of the neighborhood corporation? Mhatre. He was supported by this Nair, the owner of this property. And then there was some difficulty in the finalization of [indistinct]. So Nair it took a wrong turn, and this man were instigated to do all nonsense, and he went and did his worst, which he should not have done. And he still keeps on doing on it. [break]
Nitai: [japa, testing tape]
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa...
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare