Nitāi: January 11th, 1974. Morning walk. [break]
Satsvarūpa: ...by reading the books, he'd understood that we should become completely desireless. So he wanted more explanation. And in the car coming out Śrīla Prabhupāda just explained that our desire can't go away, because that's the symptom of the living entity. We have to have some desire. But real desirelessness means that you have no more material desire. Material desire, someone is always desiring from God, "Give me this, give me this." But when we become purified, then our desire is for "Kṛṣṇa, please take me. Please take me. Whatever service I can render, please accept it." But when one has not enough information, then he desires... His idea of desirelessness is to become like a dead stone; simply to... Because desire causes suffering and it's bad, material desire, therefore let me simply stop it and become... That will be desireless. But that is not..., that state is not possible because our symptom is of life is to have desire. So we answer him in this way = to become purified and simply serve Kṛṣṇa all the time. Not that we stop any activities. Prabhupāda was saying he is working day and night. So you cannot become absorbed in nothing. In order to become purely desireless, you have to have some activity that will always... There is a place, there is a plane of spiritual desire, spiritual activity. So there's... [pause]
Prabhupāda: What do you have to say about this? Do you understand, desireless and desireful?
Satsvarūpa: People some... Pseudo transcendentalists, they sometimes criticize us like that. They say, "Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees, you're just too active." They're think that we're fruitive, always running around, always trying to sell books, always very active. That's because they don't understand that desirelessness. They talk like that, and then they'll smoke a cigarette the next moment as they criticize us. They say, "You should not have to do anything if you're transcendental. Why do you have to work so hard?" And then they'll show that they have some very gross desire. [pause] [break]
Prabhupāda: ...therefore they see that this..., their conception of Kṛṣṇa, there is mother, there is father, there is friend---"So what is this? Here also we see the mother, father, friend. So how they become free?" They cannot understand. Their brain is so poor they cannot understand. Therefore they = "It is also māyā. To think of Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme, having father, mother, friends, playing pastime, this is also māyā." Therefore they are called Māyāvādī. They cannot conceive that in the spiritual world exactly the same things there are, but the position is different. That is absolute, without any designation.
Candanācārya: Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Candanācārya: Also this morning you said that we should try to only love Kṛṣṇa.
Candanācārya: And nothing else.
Candanācārya: But if we love our Godbrothers, is that also loving Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Because they are of..., of Kṛṣṇa. What are your Godbrothers? They are Kṛṣṇa's servant. So if you do not love your Godbrothers, that means you reject your part of Kṛṣṇa.
Candanācārya: So also our children, like that?
Prabhupāda: Eh? Eh?
Prabhupāda: Yes, if you love children for making them Kṛṣṇa conscious, then it is loving Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa wants sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. So if you help... What is our movement? Why I have come to your country? Because to make you Kṛṣṇa conscious. So there is love of Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise why..., what is the business, I have come to you? I have no business. Because I love Kṛṣṇa, I want to see all, everybody in the world, to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Otherwise why in this old age we are trying so much? Similarly, if you love your children to make them Kṛṣṇa conscious, then produce hundreds of children and make them. That is love of Kṛṣṇa. And if you make them cats and dogs, then one children producing is also sinful. That is also sinful. But if you can make them Kṛṣṇa conscious, then produce hundreds of children. That is Kṛṣṇa's love. The Bhāgavata says, pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt: "One should not become father, one should not become mother..." na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum [SB 5.5.18], "...if he cannot deliver the children from the imminent hands of death." That is the condition. So if you cannot make... Death cannot be avoided unless one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious. So if you cannot make your children Kṛṣṇa conscious and stop their death, birth and death process, then don't become a father. This is the injunction. And if you can actually do that, then become father of hundreds children. This is the condition. If you cannot make your children... If you can make, that is love of Kṛṣṇa. Because unless you love Kṛṣṇa, why you should be interested to make others Kṛṣṇa conscious? Let them go to hell. Why you should be so much working hard to make them Kṛṣṇa conscious, unless you love Kṛṣṇa? This is the sign of love. "I love Kṛṣṇa, but I do nothing for Kṛṣṇa," that is nonsense. That is nonsense. Therefore I said that our Guru Mahārāja's brother, he criticizes Guru Mahārāja, but what he has done for Kṛṣṇa? And what my Guru Mahārāja has done? Unless my Guru Mahārāja had produced me, how this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is going all over the world? And what he has done? Simply criticizing is no use. We want to see practical. Do you understand or not?
Prabhupāda: Yes. "You were also given the equal chance. Prabhupāda, my Guru Mahārāja, sat down at Māyāpur. But you were given the place of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's birthplace. What..., what you have done? It is still jungle. And what is Māyāpur there? All Americans are building a palatial building." So simply by criticizing, one does not become a very confidential devotee. Where is the action? What he has done? That is required. Phalena paricīyate. [break] ...everything. Unless Kṛṣṇa gives opportunity, nobody can serve Kṛṣṇa's. But He gives opportunity to the proper person. That is everywhere. If you want to become manager of a firm, the proprietor of the firm will see whether you are able to do that. Then he will give the chance = "Yes." This is reciprocal. Just like this śloka we were studying today. Kṛṣṇa becomes sārathi. Does Kṛṣṇa go to become sārathi of a rascal and fool? He becomes sārathi of Arjuna. That has to be seen. And without any qualification = "Kṛṣṇa, become my sārathi..." Kṛṣṇa's not so easy. First of all qualify. First deserve, then desire. First deserve, then desire. So how a Kṛṣṇa conscious person can be desireless? The first is desire = "I desire to serve Kṛṣṇa." That is the beginning. Then Kṛṣṇa will give you chance, as you deserve. This is the process. And that is explained = anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. When you become completely desireless for anything material, then bhakti begins. That is desirelessness. Desirelessness means when becomes free to desire anything except Kṛṣṇa. That is desirelessness. Desirelessness means not to desire anything material. That is desirelessness. Their Māyāvādī philosophy, that "Everything is māyā, and therefore Kṛṣṇa is māyā," that is called Māyāvādī. They do not know the distinction between māyā and reality. Everything māyā. Therefore they are called Māyāvādīs.
Gurukṛpā: Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā.
Prabhupāda: Ah. So Kṛṣṇa is also mithyā. That is their philosophy. And therefore in the Bhāgavata it is beginning = paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi [SB 1.1.1]. Satyam, not mithyā. Mithyā you can reject, unless you find out paraṁ satyam. But that they do not know what is paraṁ satyam. Therefore Bhāgavata gives = oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya, paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi. [pause] The word is anyābhilāṣitā. Anya-abhilāṣa. Anya means "other than Kṛṣṇa." Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Brs. 1.1.11], being completely freed from any other desires, jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam... [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Jñāna, the jñānīs, they also desiring liberation. The jñānīs, they have got desire. How they are desireless? Because they are aspiring after mukti. The yogīs, there is, a... aspiring after siddhi. Karmīs, they are aspiring after better condition of life. So these things should be completely free. Then he's desireless. If you are desiring mukti, where is your desirelessness? Just see. How they are bluffing! They want to become mukta, and a still, they say "desirelessness." Here is your desire. Just see the defect. Eh? Why you are desiring mukti?
Gurukṛpā: Then they argue that you also want to..., you desire to serve Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: No, therefore I say desirelessness means to desire for Kṛṣṇa. That is desirelessness. Even if you... We are not after mukti. We..., we can go to the hell to serve Kṛṣṇa.
Gurukṛpā: Mama janmani janmanīśvare...
Prabhupāda: Ah! Mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahai... [Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4]. That is... There is no question of desirelessness. We desire for Kṛṣṇa. That is desirelessness. Just like a diseased man, if he desires for healthy life, is that bad thing? To desire for further disease, that is desire. That is bad. Therefore I say you cannot give up desire. That is not possible. You have to purify your desires. But when you desire for Kṛṣṇa, that is desirelessness. To become free from disease, that does not mean you have to stop eating. In the diseased condition, you are eating. As soon as you want to desire that "Let me..., give me this nice food," but you cannot eat on your diseased condition. It will be tasteless. You simply desire, but you cannot enjoy. But same you, man, when the disease is gone, you enjoy that same food very nicely. When you are free from disease, you just ask for rasagullā, you'll taste it. But when you are diseased, the same rasagullā will not be tasteful. That is the condition. The desire which gives you happiness, that is wanted. The desire which gives you distress, that is not wanted. Therefore Bhāgavata begins with dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra [SB 1.1.2] = "The cheating type of religion is rejected." Because in every religion there is some desire for material objective, up to mukti. Bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kāmī. General people, karmīs, they want pleasure, material pleasure. The jñānīs, they want mukti, and the yogīs, they want siddhi. They're everyone beggars. And a bhakta kicks them all out = "We don't want anything. Simply Kṛṣṇa. That's all." Therefore he's desireless.
Gurukṛpā: Kṛṣṇa-bhakta---niṣkāma ataeva śānta [Cc. Madhya 19.149].
Prabhupāda: Ah! Ataeva śānta. There is śānti. You have to test whether by..., by some desire, whether you have become śānta. That is not possible except Kṛṣṇa. When you serve Kṛṣṇa, then you will feel transcendental pleasure. Otherwise you cannot. Sakali aśānta. For mukti they have to do so many things, so many things. So desirelessness means to desire for Kṛṣṇa. This is the conclusion. That Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching = mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi. This is desire. "My life after life, simply My devotion unto You may be fixed up." That's all. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In the beginning He says, na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jaga... [Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4]. "No, no, no, no, not this." Then there must be some positive. And the positive is = mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi. With simply negative, what you'll do? Simply negative? You must give something positive. Then you'll be satisfied. You are serving somewhere. You don't get sufficient salary. So you desire to give up this, this service. Resignation. But if you don't get any better service, then what will be the result of resignation? You'll starve. Again you'll go, "Master, I did wrong. Please give me that service." So that is... The Māyāvādīs' position is like that. They want to become merged into the Supreme. But that is not possible. After some time... Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. They undergo very good auster..., severe austerities and reach the brahma-jyotir, but there, everything being vacant, they cannot remain there. And they have no information of Kṛṣṇa; therefore they again come down. Patanty adhaḥ. He wants enjoyment, but there is no enjoyment. Simply thinking, "I am Brahman." What is the enjoyment there? You think like a rascal Brahman. Yes, you are Brahman already. Why these sputnik-wālās, they go...? [laughter]
Prabhupāda: They go very high and again come down? Here is... "Why you are coming? You have gone so high." There is no shelter. There is no shelter. He must come down. Similarly, to become desireless, there is no shelter. So you must come to this desire, material desire.
Gurukṛpā: It says in the Brahma-saṁhitā that they may go for the speed of...
Gurukṛpā: ...the mind, but...
Prabhupāda: Panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-saṁpragamyo vāyor athāpi manaso muni-puṅgavānām [Bs. 5.34]. Just like child. We are experiencing. As soon as we finish, he cries. And give him something, "All right." So there must be something positive. Simply taking away, vacant, that will not satisfy. He'll have to cry again, "Oh, I am vacant. I am vacant." So Māyāvādīs' position is like that. The karmīs, yogīs, jñānīs, all they are fools. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. "You rascal, you give up all these karmīs, yogīs, jñānī, siddhi... Kick out." Mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. This is the instruction. "Only unto Me. Then you'll be satisfied." Then the karmīs may say, "Oh..." Because he has got idea, without working... Just like all these fools and rascals, they are surprised, "How these people do not work, and how are happy?" They cannot imagine that without working hard, one can eat, one can sleep. But when they see that our devotees, they do not work, they are nobody's servant, "How it is possible?" They cannot think. They cannot think. But it is possible. Therefore the... When Kṛṣṇa says that mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, that, the karmīs, jñānīs, they are thinking, "Then how I will live? If I do not..., simply I become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, how shall I live?" So therefore Kṛṣṇa assures, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi [Bg. 18.66] = "I shall give you protection." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "You first of all surrender unto Me, then whatever you want, there will be supply."
Gurukṛpā: The karmīs, they are always worried.
Gurukṛpā: They are worried. So Kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: Karandhara? We made the contract to purchase the Bombay land without money. There was no money at that time, when I signed that contract.
Prabhupāda: So wherefrom the money came?
Prabhupāda: And not one rupee, two rupees---eighteen lakhs of rupees. And when I signed the contract, I had no eighteen hundred. [laughter]
Svarūpa Dāmodara: You have to make... We have to add one zero...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: On the right side. You have to add one zero, so that eighteen hundred.
Yaśodānandana: And the time when you signed the contract is the time when Madhudviṣa Swami went to Australia. He did not want to stay in Bombay.
Prabhupāda: No, I asked him that "Whether you can take charge?" He refused, "No, I cannot take charge." You know that?
Yaśodānandana: Yes, I heard.
Prabhupāda: Then Brahmānanda give me assurance, "I can take charge." Therefore I signed. But factually, he was as good as Madhudviṣa. [laughs] He made a contract with a..., that camp, forty thousand rupees. I settled up for ten thousand rupees. So our work is going on in India and money's spent, fifty percent is spoiled by this American brain. What can be done? There is no... They'll loot. They cheat, like anything. Just like this camp. It was..., it was Brahmānanda and Madhudviṣa combined together made a contract---forty thousand rupees. Then I said that "Then I am not going to pay you. You go." In Kumbha-melā also, the contract was ten thousand. So five thousand already paid. So I said, "I have no money. You have to become satisfied with the ten thousand." So they began some trouble, but after all, accepted. Because they make five hundred percent profit.
Yaśodānandana: As soon as they see American, it becomes twice as much.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Twice not; five hundred times. [laughter] As soon as they face = "They're Americans. They have got money."
Yaśodānandana: Same thing in market. When they go shopping and...
Prabhupāda: Yes. "Damn cheap." "Damn cheap, bābu." I have told this story, "Damn cheap, bābu"? Eh?
Yaśodānandana: No. [end]