Satsvarūpa: We always say that you water..., the best way to water the tree is from the root, but he says that the way that nature actually waters is from the top.
Prabhupāda: So wherefrom the top water comes?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: By evaporation.
Satsvarūpa: The clouds.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: By evaporation of the ocean.
Prabhupāda: And who kept the ocean? You go on.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: By nature.
Prabhupāda: [laughs] Then you come to somebody. And that is foolishness. Then nature is not ultimate. Kṛṣṇa is the ultimate. Because you cannot see Kṛṣṇa, therefore you say "nature."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: "Nature is under My control," Kṛṣṇa says. Kṛṣṇa says, "Nature is under My control."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is just like an equilibrium, Śrīla Prabhupāda. In science it is called equilibrium, means this on and off...
Prabhupāda: It is called cakra. What is that? In Bhagavad-gītā it is said, brahma-cakra, brahma-cakra. Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma [Chāndogya Upaniṣad 3.14.1]. That is realization, that in every action there is brahman. The beginning, by eating food grains, you become strong, the animals become strong. Then, when you become strong, you perform yajña, and from yajña there is cloud, and from cloud there is rain, and from rain there is food grains. This is the cakra.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Cycle.
Prabhupāda: Cycle, yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is the symptom of material nature.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So this yajña means to satisfy the Lord. Yajñārthe karma. So when you miss this yajña, then everything becomes disturbed. When you become godless, then whole thing will be disturbed. And practically also, if you pay income tax, then government arrangement is everything, nicely going on. And as soon as stop income tax, then whole thing... There is no finance, there is deficit, this, that, so many things. So yajña is yajñārthe karmaṇo 'nyatra. Everything should be done for the Yajña, for Viṣṇu. Then everything is in order. In Kali-yuga, other, costly yajñas are not possible. Therefore yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyaiḥ. Saṅkīrtana. But these rascals will not take. If you say that "This simple yajña, you take it.
Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. All problems will be solved," they will not believe it. They will not take it. They are so misfortunate. Śāstra says, yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ. Su-medhasaḥ, therefore, those who have got good brain, they take up this yajña process. Su-medhasaḥ. And another word is alpa-medhasaḥ, less brain substance. Tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām. Antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ yad bhavaty alpa-medhasām [Bg. 7.23]. They are doing all other things, but not yajña. Therefore alpa-medhasām: their brain substance is small. And here is su-medhasaḥ. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ [SB 11.5.32]. That is the sign of merit = you do something which will produce good result. And if you, cats and dogs, if you simply jump over, what you will do result? That Lilavati Munshi of Bombay, she is the wife of a big man, K. Munshi. So she was asking, "Swāmījī, how you made like this?" Everyone is surprised, because nobody has done like this. I said that "Because I have taken the proper method, therefore it is done so nicely." The method must be right. It may be simple, but it must be right method.
Yaśomatīnandana: She is Gujarati, Lilavati Munshi?
Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.
Yaśomatīnandana: Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan.
Prabhupāda: Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan, yes. She invited me this time.
Yaśomatīnandana: She is writer, I think.
Prabhupāda: Yes. She is very educated. Now, her husband made very great attempt for publishing book, but there is no sufficient customer. Now the press is going to be sold, and nobody customer. That is letter-setting press. Now it is obsolete. So they were perplexed. She wanted that I shall purchase. And what shall I do with this press? Letter setting is now abolished. That is not good job now. There must be litho press or, what is called, offset.
Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, if... Since Kṛṣṇa is the power that gives the demigods the ability to render everything, then why is it recommended in the Nectar of Devotion that a Vaiṣṇava should worship Gaṇapati?
Devotee: Why is it recommended in the Nectar of Devotion that a Vaiṣṇava should worship Gaṇapati?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa worship, everyone. Just like we worship also ordinary man if it gives us facility to worship Kṛṣṇa. We go to somebody and worship him, flatter him, because he will give some money, and it will be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. The man is not worshipable, but he will help us to worship Kṛṣṇa. Thereby he will be helped and we will be also helped, and Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied. Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied that "My devotee has brought some money from this rascal. All right." That is it. [laughter] So Gaṇapati is also devotee. So Gaṇapati, it is not required, but sometimes we do. Just like gopīs, they worshiped Goddess Durgā, Kātyāyanī. They did not require, but the social system is that. But they asked that "Mother Kātyāyanī, give us the opportunity to have Kṛṣṇa as our husband." The aim is Kṛṣṇa. Generally, they go to worship Devī Durgā for asking material benefit. Dhanaṁ dehi rūpaṁ dehi yaśo dehi, these things which we want in material... But the gopīs, they do not go for any material things. For Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, we can go to any demigod. Why Gaṇapati? Everyone. But our prayer should be, "Please give us Kṛṣṇa." Then it is correct.
Gurukṛpā: When we were just traveling this last time and collecting, Śrīla Prabhupāda, every day we were offering some incense to Gaṇeśa, and this prayer in the Brahma-saṁhitā, yat-pāda-pallava...
Prabhupāda: Pallava-yugaṁ vinidhāya kumbha... [Bs. 5.49]
Gurukṛpā: We were saying this, saying, "Give us facility to collect nice lakṣmī to use to build the temple in Vṛndāvana."
Yaśodānandana: To build the temple for Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma in Vṛndāvana.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is good. Whatever possible facility is available from any person, we beg for it for Kṛṣṇa's service, not for our personal benefit. [break] ...they forget Kṛṣṇa. They forget Kṛṣṇa. When they go to worship some other demigod, they forget Kṛṣṇa, kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ [Bg. 7.20], because they have got so strong material desires that they forget Kṛṣṇa. That is harmful. Alpavat tu phalaṁ teṣām. They get some benefit out of the demigod, but that will not stay. Alpavat, er, antavat. Antavat tu phalaṁ teṣām [Bg. 7.23]. But if you take Kṛṣṇa, then it is not antavat; it will go on increasing. If you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it will never end. It will increase. Ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam, increasing. The ocean does not increase, but Kṛṣṇa consciousness is such a great ocean that it increases only. Ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Candanācārya: Is it not better just to say, "Kṛṣṇa, whatever You decide. Whatever You give me, that I will accept." Like Kuntī.
Prabhupāda: Why shall I take from Kṛṣṇa? I should give.
Candanācārya: No, I mean instead of praying to demigods to give me something, saying, "Whatever You decide, Kṛṣṇa."
PPrabhupāda: Oh, yes. No. A devotee never prays to Kṛṣṇa. They have to undergo so much trouble; still they never pray to Kṛṣṇa...Jai. They know that "Kṛṣṇa will give us ultimately protection. Let us do our duty." Tat te 'nukampāṁ susamīkṣamāṇaḥ [SB 10.14.8]. When a devotee is in difficulty, he is not disturbed. He thinks, "It is Kṛṣṇa's wish that I should suffer like this. It is not suffering; it is my pleasure." Just like when a patient is undergoing surgical operation, there is pain, but he knows, "It is better for me." Therefore agrees, "Yes, sir. You go on with your knife." So when you are surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa says that "I shall give you protection," so even in our distressed condition we must know that we are being protected by Kṛṣṇa. We should not be disturbed. Because we create so-called distress and happiness. Actually, this world is distress. Here the so-called happiness is also distress. So why a devotee should be disturbed by distressed condition? Harer nāma harer nāma [Cc. Ādi 17.21]. [break]
Candanācārya: One time you said that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not difficult, but to remain determined, that is difficult. Determination is difficult. So how do we...?
Prabhupāda: That determination comes by tapasya. Therefore we have got rules and regulation. If you follow the rules and regulation, then you will be determined. Otherwise, you will be victim of māyā. The rules and regulation is there just to keep you fixed up in your determination. But if you don't follow, then you fall down. Just like physician says, "You don't take this along with medicine. You take this." That is rules and regulation. If you follow, then you do not become victim of disease again. If you don't follow, then you... What the physician will do?
Candanācārya: Did it also requires determination to follow the tapasya.
Prabhupāda: Then if he cannot, then he is cat and dog; he is not a human being. Why he should accept initiation? Let him remain a cat and dog. He promises to follow, and if he cannot follow, then he is nothing but cat and dog. In the court, they take promises that "In the name of God," "In the name of Bible." So that means he will speak the truth. Similarly, before the fire, before Deity, before guru, before devotees, he is promising something, and if he does not follow, then he is cat and dog. He cannot advance. That is not possible. That is the distinction between cat and dog and human being.
Prabhupāda: Cat and dog, they cannot promise. It is not possible. But a human being can promise. And if he keeps his promise, then he is human being. Otherwise cat and dog. Word of honor. The cats and dogs, they have no sense of honor. Either you kick him or pat, he does not know what is the difference. That is cat and dog. He does not know the distinction. A human being knows what is promise, what is word of honor. [break]
Yaśodānandana: ...you mentioned that the vaiśyas, they are considered to be the capitalists, and the śūdras, they are considered to be the Communist. And you mentioned that eventually the Communists will take over the capitalists. So how long do you think that will happen?
Prabhupāda: What's the use? Why shall I think like that? Let them go to hell, and let us go back to home, back to Godhead. Why shall I waste our time? We can advise them, "Do this. You will be happy." If they do not take, then we don't bother anymore. We are not social welfare worker or political worker. We are worker for Kṛṣṇa. [break] ...in this world that people are suffering for want of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Let us try to make them Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is our only interest. Otherwise, we have no interest in this material world. Let them do their own duty and suffer or enjoy. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, samo 'haṁ sarva-bhūteṣu [Bg. 9.29]. Samaḥ. Samatā. We are not social worker or political worker. We are Kṛṣṇa worker. So we give advice to them that "You become Kṛṣṇa conscious and all problems will be solved." That is our duty; and to advise him, to convince him, to give him all facilities. Still, he does not take, then we are not going to see how long he will suffer, how he will stop. Let them do their own business. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66] = "Give up all nonsense engagement. Just become My devotee," we say like that. But if somebody does not give, give up, also not, then Kṛṣṇa also does not interfere. Let him suffer.
[break] ...how long one suffers. He can stop his suffering immediately, but if he does not take the medicine, then what can be done? Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi [Bg. 18.66]. If Kṛṣṇa withdraws all his sinful activities, then where is the question of suffering? But he will not do. Now, because he is not surrendered soul to Kṛṣṇa, so he is suffering from time immemorial, and nobody can say how long he will suffer. He will go on suffering. It cannot stop. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says mūḍha, rascal. Na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. He does not know, by simply surrendering to Kṛṣṇa everything will be nice. That he does not know. And if you advise, he will not accept. Matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā [SB 7.5.30]. That is explained by Prahlāda Mahārāja, that "These rascals who have got this idea that 'By adjustment, we shall be happy in this material world,' they will never understand what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They will never understand, because their aim is..." That picture we gave in Back to Godhead, anchor?
Prabhupāda: Their anchor is to remain here and enjoy. That is their main disease. They do not... Just like the Russian aeronaut has gone so high, he was seeing, "Where is Moscow?" The anchor is there in the Moscow. Therefore he has to come down. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adho 'nādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. So everyone wants to keep this anchor of this material attachment. They say that "Yes, I am ready to accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness, provided Kṛṣṇa gives us so many material..." Just like in Germany, so many women went to pray in the Second World War, "Oh, my husband may come back, my father may come back." But nobody came back. And all of them became atheists. You see? They take Kṛṣṇa, or God, as their servant, not to become servant of Kṛṣṇa, that "I prayed so much, 'Kṛṣṇa, God, give us our daily bread,' and He did not give. Therefore give it up.".
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what is the Vedic explanation of the working principle of the brain, how our brain is working?
Prabhupāda: Brain is working? Because you, living entity, soul, is there. Just like I am typing, and he is typing. I have got the latest mechanical, improved typist, and he has got old, bygone-age typist, similarly, according to our karma, capacity, Kṛṣṇa gives us facility. So brain is that facility. Kṛṣṇa gives us. Not that... So far the brain substance is concerned, a dog's brain and your Professor Einstein's brain is the same. Is the brain, same. But because Professor Einstein is advanced in knowledge, he is working differently. Otherwise, when Einstein, the soul is off from the body, and the dog is off from the body, you will see the brain equally the same. So this, your scientists, they do not know.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say that there are about nine billion cells. They are called neurons.
Prabhupāda: That's like. Just like I have given already. Why nine billion cells are there? Because you can work with it. I have given a electric-running-on typewriter because I know how to work it. Otherwise, this electric machine and the old electric machine, they are made of the same iron, but if I know how to work it, then I can utilize this machinery. But for a layman, it will be all the same. So that is karma. According to karma, we gets a body.
The body's machinery is also well equipped, as I can work. This is nature's gift. Not that "This brain is first class, that brain is first class, er, last class." All brain, last class. It is matter. The man who is working, the soul who is working, he is first class, second class, third class. It is said clearly, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61] = "Īśvara, Kṛṣṇa, is situated in everyone's heart." Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā [Bg. 18.61] = "He is offered a yantra, a machine, made by material energy." But that is under the direction of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa's asked the material energy, "Give a good machine; he can work. Good or bad, as He wants, as He wants. That's all. Give him a...," yantrārūḍhāni māyayā. It is all bad. Either this electric machine or that manual machine, they are all matter. So anything material, that is bad. But he wants it; "All right, give it." That is going on. He wants this facility. And before this motorcars, people were walking on foot. All business was being done. But we wanted a machine like that, so Kṛṣṇa has given us brain to manufacture. That's all. But what you will benefit by this? Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, "All right, you give up all this nonsense proposal." But they will not do that. They will create another nonsense desire. That desire should be stopped. That is desireless. Because they will go on simply proposing some nonsense desire. That is their material existence. Now, they have discovered this, made this motor, nice... Now there is problem, no power...
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Gasoline.
Prabhupāda: Gasoline. And if the gasoline is stopped, then your whole endeavor is gone. So this is their business. They are manufacturing something which will entangle him more and more. That he does not know.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Now they have reduced the output of big cars, because previously they were making big cars...
Prabhupāda: Just see. Now how the business will... Another problem. The factory... How will so many men...? So they will create problem. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, "You give up all this nonsense desire."
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The airlines have laid off so many thousands of people because there isn't enough gasoline to fly all the aeroplanes. So they are just laying off people. They are becoming unemployed now.
Prabhupāda: Yes, one after another, problem will come.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Coming to the brain again, the..., some people are working. Why some people are insane? For example, the mechanism of working the brain, some of the chemical pathways, they say, change, block. So some people become insane.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Insane means...
Prabhupāda: Then he cannot work. That's all. Even if I give you good machine... Just like I do not know how to work on it, so similarly, if one does not know how to work, then it is useless machine.
Karandhara: They are thinking that by a certain types of chemicals they can correct things like depression and unhappiness. They say it's all just a chemical situation in the brain.
Prabhupāda: But that, they propose so many nonsense things, but they cannot do anything.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are making experiments on rats now.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. They will go on experimenting life after life. That is their foolishness.
Yaśodānandana: Next life they may have to experiment in a dog's body.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And some of our politicians, he has become a dog. Yes. Nehru. He has become a dog, in Stockholm. Yes.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In Stockholm?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I told that to my mother, and she would not believe it. You know, people think that if someone is a great politician or something, he can never become something like this.
Prabhupāda: Then why the politician dies? If he has got so good brain, let him live forever.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: People have so much blind faith in people like Nehru and Gandhi.
Prabhupāda: Jawaharlal Nehru did not want to give up his prime ministership unless he was collapsed. So why he did not live, if he is so intelligent? And Kṛṣṇa says, if you have to believe Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13] = "He has to accept another body." So why you should disbelieve that he has accepted a dog's body? Because the acceptance of body is not your business.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa's.
Prabhupāda: Ah. It is the business of higher nature. Daiva-netreṇa. So if the daiva likes that "You must take this dog's body," how can you refuse it? You cannot refuse.
Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, yesterday in the paper I saw a picture. Nixon had his sixty-first birthday, and he had a big cake made, and he offered the first bite, the first lick, to his dog.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is good. That is stated in the Bhagavad..., ārto 'rthārthī. He is in great distress. Now he is taking shelter of God. Ārto 'rthārthī. Then he is good, at least. Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtino 'rjuna [Bg. 7.16]. Ārtaḥ. Ārtaḥ means very much distressed. He is very much distressed than all the Americans.
Yaśodānandana: His dog. He offered his dog.
Gurukṛpā: He had a cake for his sixty-first birthday, and he gave the first bite to his dog, d-o-g.
Prabhupāda: Oh, not God?
Devotees: No, no. Dog. [everyone laughing]
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Dog has become his God, then.
Prabhupāda: Then why he should not become dog? Become yaṁ yaṁ vāpi... He has great love for dog, and it is said that yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran loke tyajata [Bg. 8.6], at the time of death, he will think of dog and he will become dog. This is...
Yaśodānandana: One time I asked one Indian man, "Why is it that people beat the dogs in India?"
Yaśodānandana: "Why do you beat the dogs so bad?" He says, "Because the English people were ruling for so long. Now they have taken birth as dogs. We beat them."
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In America, taking care of the dogs and cats is a very big business. It's a very big business.
Karandhara: They even have cemeteries.
Candanācārya: They buy ten-thousand-dollar necklace for their dog.
Prabhupāda: Just see how much attracted.
Candanācārya: Yes, when they die, they leave all their money to the dog.
Prabhupāda: So why they refuse to become a dog? Why they refuse to become a dog?
Karandhara: Some of them want to become.
Karandhara: Some of them would like to become.
Umāpati: Some of them think dogs and cats are more intelligent than people.
Prabhupāda: Intelligent, there are... Ant is also intelligent than any human being. So they live within the hole of wall, and there is no scarcity. Can you become like that? You live within your apartment and there is no scarcity. Wherefrom he gets food? They are more intelligent than human being. Everyone has got some specific talent, either human being or cats and dogs or ant---everyone. Just like the vultures, they go four mile, five miles above, and they can find out where is a corpse, where is a dead body. But you cannot do that. You see? Immediately pounce on it. Hundreds of vulture will come. Did you not see it? So they are intelligent more than human being. Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is called acintya.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is called acintya. Every living entity has some special quality.
Prabhupāda: Yes. [end]