Devotee (1): Yes, I did.
Prabhupāda: You give me... [break]
Devotee (2): He's in the... Parking the car.
Prabhupāda: Oh. [break] [indistinct] ...is another plan for wasting time. [devotees laugh] So the material world means they have got different devices for wasting time, not for utilizing time. Is it correct?
Prajāpati: It is considered one of our major problems, leisure time. People are having more time on their hands, and they do not know what to do with it. So the government, they're scratching their heads inventing things for people to waste their time.
Prabhupāda: Ah yes. This is the difficulty. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [SB 7.5.31]. Because they are rascal, they do not know how to utilize time, where is the aim of life, where you have to go. These things, they're unknown. So they must waste time. So it is the... Just like child = he wastes time in so many ways. It is the duty of the parents, guardians, to cr..., I mean to say, synchronize his activities so that he may not waste his time. It is the duty of the guardians. Similarly these rascals, they're wasting time. You have to engage them in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then their time will be utilized. [break]
Devotee (3): ...in Holland wasn't any fuel Sundays, and the people could go outside with the cars, and then the statistics say that the fight between the family increased so, so much the police went... They went to the houses to..., just to separate the people because there was fighting so much because they didn't have anywhere to go on Sundays. [devotees laugh]
Prabhupāda: Just see. It has become a problem, eh, to remain at home. [break]
Prajāpati: ...society, Śrīla Prabhupāda, it would, training up brahminical qualities. But in the people in general, how can we engage them also in Kṛṣṇa consciousness? How can we provide them a means to use their leisure time to perfect their lives?
Prabhupāda: Just chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Is it very difficult?
Prajāpati: To get them to do it is difficult.
Prabhupāda: Yes, let's call them in our temple, be practiced. Therefore our Society is the most important Society. We can teach people how to utilize time properly and be perfect. [break]
Prajāpati: ...well you utilize your time, Śrīla Prabhupāda, every second is engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. And our advanced Godbrothers, they've also learned this art. But the vast majority of us, we haven't quite got the hang of it yet.
Prabhupāda: It is practice. As by practicing you become a first-class drunkard, similarly by practicing you can become a first-class Kṛṣṇa conscious. It is equal. Abhyāsa-yoga-yuktena cetasā nānya-gāminā [Bg. 8.8]. Abhyāsa, practice. In association the practice is very easily done. Just like you are saying that you are engaged. So by association you can learn also. The association is very important. [break]
Prajāpati: ...Śrīla Prabhupāda. You're very, very regulated, almost down to the minute, in your activities. This is also a big help in utilizing time?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Avyartha-kālatvam That explains the... This is... This should be our aim. Not a single moment is wasted. If you try that "How I'm wasting my time," then you'll utilize it. You should always remember, not a single moment should be wasted. That is advised by Rūpa Gosvāmī. Avyartha kāla tam. Vyartha means spoiling, and avyartha means not spoiling. Avyartha kāla. He should be always conscious that "I am not wasting my time." Then it will be learned. Kṛṣṇa... [break] ...on the street. The bums, they also utilize, that they want to see that not a moment is wasted without drinking. [devotees chuckle] Yes, they actually do that. They want to drink only, twenty-four hours. As soon as the bottle is finished, they're finding somebody who will pay one dollar, and purchase another small bottle. They're doing only business this. [break]
Prajāpati: ...the holy name and devotional service.
Prajāpati: You want us to be drunkards on the holy name, and be like those...
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. There is eight kinds of transcendental transformation. [pause] [devotees chant japa] [break]
Prajāpati: ...foolish play tennis, and the lazy foolish, they play golf. [Prabhupāda laughs] [break]
Prabhupāda: ...less dangerous than the active foolish. [devotees chant japa] [break]
Prajāpati: In the Bhagavad-gītā it is indicated by Śrī Kṛṣṇa that when we approach a bona fide spiritual master our relationship is twofold = we render service and then we also make inquiry.
Prajāpati: Now, you have answered all our inquiries so thoroughly in our books that to make inquiry at this point seems like..., you've already answered all the questions. So how may we... What is the proper relationship at that point to make inquiry?
Devotee (4): Read the books.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Read the books, yes. Why I'm working so hard? Read the books. [break] ...don't find him in the class also.
Devotee (4): Who should, Prabhupāda?
Devotee (5): He got married yesterday.
Prabhupāda: He is married?
Yaśodānandana: I heard yesterday he was married.
Yaśodānandana: He went to officially. I... We tried yesterday to convince him, but he would not listen.
Prabhupāda: Officially he's married now.
Devotee: Yes. [break]
Prabhupāda: ...seen that one who is married, he's lamenting, and who is not married, he's also lamenting. Is it not? Eh? One who is married, he's thinking, "Why did I marry? I would have remained free." He's lamenting. And who is not married, "Oh, I did not accept a wife. I would have been happy." [laughs] [Hindi] There's a Hindi... It just like [Hindi]. One who has eaten, he's also lamenting, and who has not eaten, he's also lamenting. [break] Tṛpyanti neha... That is said in Sanskrit. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ [SB 7.9.45]. Kṛpaṇā, by one's sex life he gets some children and he's... As soon as there is child, there is suffering. The child is suffering and the parents also suffering to take care. So again he begets another child. Therefore it is said, tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. Behind this child-producing there is so much difficulties and trouble. He knows that.
But again pro..., doing the same thing. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. Therefore a sane person, kaṇḍūtivan manasijaṁ viṣaheta dhīraḥ. Therefore one who is dhīra, one who has become sober, he tolerates the sensation, itching sensation. It is after all itching sensation. So one who can tolerate the itching sensation, he saves so much trouble. But one who cannot, he's implicated, immediately. Either illicit or legitimate, it is trouble. Yan maithunādi... That is the only happiness in this material world. That is only happiness. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. One who wants to remain in this material world, his only happiness is sex life. He has no other happiness. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham. And that is very abominable, tuccham happiness. What is this happiness? But they cannot understand. Kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham. Itching, between the two hands. It produces so many bad results, but he's not satisfied. "All right, I've done once, that's all right. One children is all right, one or two." But no, then contraceptive, abortion, so many things. But the māyā is so strong, it will induce, "Yes, do this," and be implicated. Kṛpaṇā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. [break] Becoming master of the dog, he has become servant of the dog.
Prabhupāda: Just see practically. A man keeps the dog to give him protection when he'll be attacked by somebody. But to wait for that time he has to give twenty-four-hour service to the dog. [dog barking]
Devotee (1): I think he knows you're talking about him.
Devotee (1): I think the dog knows you're talking about him.
Prabhupāda: He knows everything. [break]
Prajāpati: ...Prabhupada, everything looks brand new, looks very different.
Prajāpati: This is the first time we've gone this direction. Everything looks different, looks like a total different place.
Prabhupāda: [chuckles] This is material life. We are rounding sometimes this way, sometimes that way, and we are thinking "new." [devotees laugh] Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. In this way we are wandering all over the universe, find out something new. But there is nothing new. Everything is old. [break] ...old, a living entity is offered change of the body. You see? When he becomes fatigued, "Oh, this life is so troublesome"---old men generally think like that---so he has to change another, another new body, child. Since born he is taken care, he thinks, "Now I have got so comfortable life," and again becomes old, disgusted. So he cannot live disgusting, therefore Kṛṣṇa is so kind = "All right, change body again." Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30]. Chewing the chewed. The business is the same, but changing body gives some relief. Just like these men, the business is they're wasting time by changing, wasting time at home, come to the golf club. That's all.
The business is the same---wasting time, either here or there. Kṛṣṇa has given so much facilities. Sometimes, "All right, you become tree," "All right, some, become a serpent," "All right, you become a demigod," "All right, you become a human being," "All right, you become a king," "You become a cobbler," "You go to the heavenly planet," "Go to the hellish planet." Varieties is there. Kṛṣṇa is so kind that He's changing varieties, atmosphere of life. But he's packed up in this material world. That freedom... He's asking for freedom, but he does not know that freedom is... at the shelter of Kṛṣṇa. That he'll not accept. Therefore Kṛṣṇa has arranged so many varieties. In disgust the Māyāvādīs, they want to make the varieties variety-less, nirviśeṣa. And the Buddhists, they want to make it zero. But that is also not possible. Remain zero for some time; again he will want varieties. Big, big Māyāvādī sannyāsī, they preach so much brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, but again they come to the political work, social work. Simply remain as brahma, "I am brahma," you cannot remain for many days. Then he has to accept these material varieties. Variety is the mother of enjoyment, so therefore our proposition is, "Come to the real variety, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then your life will be successful."
Prajāpati: The Māyāvādīs, they not only misunderstand the nature of the Absolute, they misunderstand the function of the jīva.
Prabhupāda: Yes. When one misunderstands, he misunderstands everything. One who commits mistake, he can commit mistake in so many ways. They want to merge into the Absolute. They think that there is no variety, to avoid this variety. Ah? Just like sometimes one is suffering from some disease, they commit suicide. He thinks, "I'm suffering. If I commit suicide, then everything will be stopped." But he does not know that by committing suicide he'll increase another set of varieties of miserable condition of life. He'll become ghost. And becoming ghost, you cannot enjoy anything grossly. The subtle body will create disturbance. Therefore ghost creates disturbance. He hasn't got gross body to enjoy. They're ghostly haunt; therefore a male ghost haunts over woman, woman ghost haunts over man. You know that? It so happens. Ghostly haunted.
Yaśodānandana: In the New York temple they had a ghost upstairs.
Yaśodānandana: The New York temple in Brooklyn...
Yaśodānandana: This is..., this was the old house which was used by nuns. And the upstairs floor, on the complete top, there used to be some nuns which were dying there, very old nuns. And when they moved in the temple there was ghosts, still there is there. There's one room, it still comes.
Yaśodānandana: Yes. The ghost comes sometimes. They chant and put incense.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā? But she does not go away? Or does not do any harm?
Gurukṛpā: They don't let anyone sleep in that room.
Gurukṛpā: Because everyone is haunted. There's many people have seen the ghost.
Yaśodānandana: Many devotees.
Prabhupāda: But ghost cannot remain where there is chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break] In India, all collections should be utilized for Vṛndāvana temple. I shall personally supervise. So bring all collection to me.
Gurukṛpā: When we go to India.
Prabhupāda: Yes. [break] ...who has got the information.
Devotee: The Rose Bowl.
Satsvarūpa: Rāmeśvara said he had the figures, but I have to get them from him. [break]
Prabhupāda: This is human life. Your choice, make your choice, which way. Again death or deathlessness. Stop death from here. This is human life. The karmīs, jñānīs, yogīs, they're trying for death. There will be death. But for the bhaktas, devotees, there is deathlessness. Punar janma jayāya. For conquering next birth. Rascal civilized man does not know what is next life, how death can be stopped. Nothing else. Big, big scholars of Bhagavad-gītā, they do not understand. The so-called scholars, they do not understand. But these things are there in the Bhagavad-gītā. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. Yad gatvā na nivartante [Bg. 15.6]. They do not understand. They say, "What is this?" They do not understand. [break]
Bali-mardana: ...people could not enjoy so much in this life, they worry more about the next life.
Bali-mardana: When people realize they cannot enjoy so much in this life, they worry more about what is going to happen to them in the next life.
Prabhupāda: No, how does... They do not know what is next life?
Bali-mardana: They don't know.
Prabhupāda: They make it zero. Therefore, closing the eye = "There is no next life. Finished. There is no next life." In that way they're satisfied. Just like the rabbit. There is danger, enemy, he closes his eyes. He thinks there is no danger. [devotees laugh] So these rascals are like that. Because they cannot accommodate that this life is so troublesome, again, next life... So that they can realize. Next life means again troublesome; therefore they sometimes commit suicide. They think that after suicide it will be zero, so no trouble. These are all ignorance.
Karandhara: In psychology that's called repression.
Karandhara: In psychology it's called repression
Karandhara: Taking something which is a fact, but refusing to believe it, pushing it out of your mind, repressing it.
Bali-mardana: There is a philosophy called Stoicism. They believe they... This life is meant to suffer, so they should just become very sturdy to suffer a great deal.
Prabhupāda: So sturdy or not sturdy, you have to suffer. How cannot check? By simply becoming sturdy...
Bali-mardana: No, stoic.
Prabhupāda: Ah. What is that?
Bali-mardana: It's a philosophy, a school of philosophy, stoic.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. What is their conclusion?
Bali-mardana: That the world is very..., is full of suffering...
Bali-mardana: ...so they become very sturdy to bear the suffering.
Prabhupāda: So one who can suffer without any protest, he's first-class man.
Bali-mardana: [laughs] Yeah.
Prabhupāda: That means they do not know how to stop suffering.
Prabhupāda: The... Here is one class, they're trying to become very strong to tolerate suffering, and other philosophies, they're making everything zero. There is no question of not suffering, but making zero. No suffering, nor neither suffering. Suffering or not, both of them abolished, dismissed. This philosopher is that "This suffering cannot be dismissed. Therefore you be strong to tolerate it." And other philosophers, they say, "There is suffering, so make it zero." But both of them have no information that there is real life where there is no suffering. Still there is life. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is life, but no suffering.
Bali-mardana: They're like owls.
Prabhupāda: Yes. [pause]
Bali-mardana: There's a river. [break]
Prabhupāda: ...duḥkha-nivṛtti. Ultimately, stop of all sufferings. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt [Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12]. Simply ānanda. Dancing with Kṛṣṇa, rāsa dance. Supposing if there is such life---dancing and eating and chanting, no suffering---so would anybody deny that? Is there any such fool?
Bali-mardana: Yeah, they all deny it.
Bali-mardana: They deny. Just like the Puritans...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Deny... You deny or accept, that is the... Suppose there is such life where you can simply dance, eat and live eternally, happy life. Would you not like to accept it?
Devotee (2): Yes, of course. Anyone would.
Devotee (2): Anyone would like to accept that.
Prabhupāda: You see? That we are giving.
Devotee (2): But they think no such thing would exist.
Prabhupāda: They think, may think, but it is theoretical. Suppose if there is such life, would you not accept it? You may believe, not believe, that is another chapter. First of all, this is our proposition, that there is a life like this. Would you like? Who will say "No"? Everyone will say, "Yes, I like." It is a question of understanding. There is such life, but because he is disappointed at being cheated, cheated, cheated, he thinks, "Here is also another cheating." Just see. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness preaching means to convince them that there is life like this. That is propaganda.
Bali-mardana: What will convince them that it is simply just not another cheating?
Bali-mardana: What is the thing that will convince them that it is just simply not another cheating?
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is not cheating; it is fact.
Bali-mardana: What will convince them of that? What qualities?
Prabhupāda: Just see example, our. We are chanting, dancing, and eating nicely. What you are doing? You are simply talking nonsense. There is no peace in your life. And see our devotees in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is the proof, practical proof.
Yaśodānandana: Practical proof that they cannot get purified.
Yaśodānandana: Even though they have big posts...
Prabhupāda: No, either purified or... The purified means you come with us and you will be purified. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, rādhā-kṛṣṇa bolo saṅge calo, ei-mātra bhikhā cāi. We don't want anything from you. You, I shall give you eating. I shall give you everything. You simply come with me and chant. This is our propaganda. We don't say that "You do this, do that." We don't do anything. Simply come with us and chant.
Bali-mardana: Just like the Catholic Church, in different places around the world they feed the people.
Bali-mardana: But we cannot only... If we not only feed them, but give them chanting and dancing...
Bali-mardana: ...they will accept it as superior.
Devotee (2): Actually we can see that happening very practically. At Spiritual Sky many big, big businessmen they come, and they see how these boys are making money and yet they are singing and dancing all the time. [laughs]
Prabhupāda: This is practical. It's practical. Therefore in India we are considered as the richest community. There was a question in Parliament, "Wherefrom these Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, they get their money?" And the Parliament would reply, Home Member, that "They get money by distributing literature." This was the reply. This is recorded in the Parliament, Indian Parliament.
Prabhupāda: So if we simply push on our literature, then our movement is going, you must know. It is really going forward. And there will be no scarcity. You'll get everything. [break] Our neighborers they inquire, is it not, that "You are living so happily. Where do you get money?"
Prabhupāda: The storekeepers, they inquire. [laughs] They're envious, that "How these people enjoying life without earning, without working hard?" Now whole Bombay is surprised when you purchased this land.
Prabhupāda: So much fighting was there. Immediately I went and purchased; everything stopped. [devotees laugh] They are surprised. This man, they... You know there are two very stubborn parties who have cheated. Chaganlal, he advanced fifty-one thousand as advance, and when there was question of settlement, so he came, he wanted that "If you give me three lakhs, then I'll compromise." So I was prepared to pay him three lakhs. So that Mr. Ganotra, mayor, I induced him, "Just make settlement." Then down he came---two lakhs twenty-five thousand. Then asked Mr. Nair..., Mrs. Nair, "Now you'll pay this..." Where I have got... If he takes all money, then what shall I get? Then I had to settle with her how much he will pay. So she came from one lakh to one lakh, forty thousand. So what is the balance?
Bali-mardana: Sixty. Sixty... Eighty-five thousand.
Prabhupāda: Ah? Eighty-five. So I said, "Yes, I'll pay it. Settle up. The balance I'll pay, eighty-five thousand." The other man, what is called? Ratna Parik?
Prabhupāda: That Chaganlal this, I paid him extra eighty-five thousand. That is also black. No more white. So the black money was paid in this way, that the money was counted and it was put in a handbag, and it was locked by him. So the key was with him, and the bag was with me. As soon as court accepted the agreement, then I handed over, "Take this bag." Then again this Ratna Parik, he first of all proposed twenty thousand to sell that house. Then when I went there, he knew that he's settling at any cost, he said, "Now that twenty thousand was proposed formerly. Now things have gone very high, I cannot sell." So he knows that we are eager to purchase. Then I said, "Then what you want to do?" "Now I want thirty thousand." "All right, yes. Take it." I did not argue. In this way I settled up. And our Girirāja's father appreciated that "It is better a bad settlement than the prolong the case." So I took this policy. It is bad settlement, from twenty thousand to thirty thousand, but settle out. I gave him 85,000 black. But one thing I gain---that by canceling the agreement, their proposal was that increase the price, twenty lakhs from fourteen lakhs. That was the arrangement between the attorneys, that "Cancel the agreement and take twenty lakhs from him, and the balance should be divided by..., amongst us." That was the agreement. So that addition of twenty lakhs I satisfied Mrs. Nair by fourteen lakhs fifty thousand.
Bali-mardana: Saves [indistinct] lakhs.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The attorneys were settling at seventeen lakhs, but by Kṛṣṇa's grace I was able to settle at fourteen lakhs fifty thousand.
Bali-mardana: You were able to convince her to settle for less.
Gurukṛpā: This was white? Mrs. Nair's was white?
Prabhupāda: Ah? Yes, fourteen lakhs fifty thousand white.
Bali-mardana: She must've been very surprised to receive the money, such a large payment.
Prabhupāda: Yes. [break] ...was only ten lakhs.
Prabhupāda: Then Karandhara sent... How much you sent?
Karandhara: Excuse me, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: What you sent?
Karandhara: Sent twenty thousand.
Prabhupāda: Twenty thousand. That was... Not two lakhs, nowadays. Eight rupees. About one lakh sixty thousand. Then we had about three lakhs. In this way, somehow or other, we paid seven..., more than sixteen lakhs, black, white, everything.
Gurukṛpā: For Kṛṣṇa anything can be done.
Prabhupāda: She was to be paid fourteen lakhs fifty thousand, then stamp duty two lakhs... Sixty thousand or six thousand? Then registration fee. Oh, it was very expensive. [break]
Devotee (2): ...that at the end of this month the United States will be destroyed by the comet, the Kohoutek Comet.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Their demonic principles will be destroyed. They'll take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Devotees: Jaya. Haribol!
Prabhupāda: What do they say... After destruction, then what is next?
Devotee (2): Oh, they all move to Mexico and Canada, so they wouldn't be in the way of the destruction. They don't know what's going to happen after that.
Prabhupāda: So at the time of danger they'll go away from it. Very good. [devotees laugh]
Bali-mardana: Lord Jesus came to save the fallen souls...
Bali-mardana: ...and they are all running away.
Prabhupāda: They are so good Christian that at the time of danger, they're all going away to Canada. Just see---afraid of death, even though they are preaching themselves, priest, they are also the same common man, afraid of death. And if we people keep to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we are not afraid of death. For going from one place to another, that's all. Going home. Nobody becomes afraid going back to home. He becomes pleased. [break] ...you'll avoid death. There is no death. Viṣaya.[?] If we simply practice this, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma..., no more death. Finish death. This is a fact. [break] ...or do something for Kṛṣṇa. Don't waste time, single moment. Then your... No more death. Because this is deathless condition. And the changing of the body, that is momentary, that is not.
Bali-mardana: So our service is deathless.
Prabhupāda: Ah? Deathless...
Bali-mardana: Devotional service.
Prabhupāda: ...yes, this is deathless position.
Bali-mardana: But if we stop serving...
Prabhupāda: You admit or not, theologian? [laughter] Eh? Eh? Or you have got anything to say? This is deathlessness.
Bali-mardana: Because the soul is acting.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Ah?
Karandhara: Looks like it may start raining a bit, Prabhupāda. We may cut over here.
Prabhupāda: All right.
Karandhara: And I can bring the car over.
Prabhupāda: No, no, what is that? We shall not die, even there is [indistinct]. [devotees laugh]
Bali-mardana: We will melt.
Prajāpati: The soul cannot be wet.
Prabhupāda: No, it is pleasant. Viśvaṁ pūrṇaṁ-sukhāyate. For a devotee, everything is very happy. There is no unhappiness. Any condition, they are happy. Viśvaṁ pūrṇaṁ-sukhāyate. For nondevotees everything is a problem. [laughter] And for devotee, everything is happiness. That is the difference.
Devotees: Jaya. [wind sounds in background]
Prabhupāda: This is fact. This is not imaginary, I mean to say... Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi [Bg. 18.66]. The suffering is due to sinful activities. So a devotee is not acting sinfully; he's fully surrendered... [break] [end]