Prabhupāda: ...Nobel Prize. He came to California University. So he was lecturing on his theory that life has begun by combination of certain chemicals. He has mentioned those chemicals. But in that meeting, there was a member, he's my student, my disciple. He's doctor in chemistry. He has learned something about our philosophy. So he challenged that gentleman that "If I give you all these chemicals, whether you can produce life?"
The answer was, "That I cannot say." The answer was not very distinct. Actually, that is not the fact. If the scientist says that life begins from chemicals, wherefrom the chemicals came, the next question will be. You cannot get chemicals without being supplied by somebody else. So we are presenting this theory. People are being misled. It is a great question at the present moment, that the scientist says that from matter life begins. We are challenging = "No. From life, matter comes." Just the opposite.
So we are confident, because we have got our Kṛṣṇa's statement in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayādhyakṣeṇa [Bg. 9.10] = "Under My superintendence." Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ. Prakṛti is matter. Jaḍa-prakṛti. We have got many confirmation from the Vedic literature. Yato vā imāni bhūtāni jāyante. Imāni bhūtāni yataḥ jāyante [Taittirīya Upaniṣad 3.1]. In the Vedānta-sūtra the same thing is confirmed = janmādy asya yataḥ, anvayāt. The Bhāgavata explains, begins from this Vedānta-sūtra = janmādy asya yataḥ anvayāt itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ svarāṭ [SB 1.1.1]. So we have got our sufficient background to challenge this theory that life comes from matter. No.
When Kṛṣṇa says... In another place, Kṛṣṇa also says:
ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo
mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate
iti matvā bhajante māṁ
budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ
[Bg. 10.8]
Budhāḥ. Not the rascals and nonsense, but those who are intelligence, budhāḥ. Bodha. Bodha means knowledge, and budha means one who possesses knowledge. So those who are devotees of Kṛṣṇa, they are not rascals. They are not rascals. They are budhāḥ. Not only budhāḥ, but also bhāva-samanvitāḥ. Bhāva-samanvita means a person who has understood Kṛṣṇa or who is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he feels the presence of Kṛṣṇa everywhere. Bhāva-samanvitāḥ. Budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ.
The same thing is confirmed in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. The mahā-bhāgavata, one who is advanced in spiritual consciousness, he sees everywhere Kṛṣṇa. That is a fact. He does not see anything...
sthāvara-jaṅgama dekhe, nā dekhe tāra mūrti
sarvatra sphūrta haya iṣṭa-deva-mūrti
[Cc. Madhya 8.274]
A devotee is seeing a palatial building, but he does not see the palatial building; he sees Kṛṣṇa. Because he knows that the ingredients of this palatial building, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ [Bg. 7.4], all this earth, water, air, fire, that is Kṛṣṇa's energy. From Kṛṣṇa, this earth, water, air, fire, everything has come out. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Yato vā imāni bhūtāni jāyante. The original source of anything, of everything, is Kṛṣṇa. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8].
So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not a sectarian, sentimental movement. It is a very scientific movement, to understand Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So in the Western world, they cannot be misled by sentiments. That is not possible. Sentiment must be there, but that is after understanding. That is spiritual sentiment. That is bhava. That is another thing. Budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... He also exhibited His spiritual sentiments = "Where is Kṛṣṇa?"
yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa
cakṣuṣā prāvṛṣāyitam
śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ
govinda-viraheṇa me
[Cc. Antya 20.39, Śikṣāṣṭaka 7]
This is sentiment. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu was thinking one moment as twelve years. Yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa. Nimeṣa means twinkling of an eye, moment. But He was thinking twelve years. And before Him, the gopīs also, they used to condemn the creator, Brahmā, because he created the eyelid and twinkling of the eyes, which is obstructed seeing Kṛṣṇa.
[aside:] What is that sound?
Devotees: Motorcycle.
Prabhupāda: Oh. So sentiment must be there. But sentiment, ecstasy, from material point of view sentiment, that is different. Spiritual sentiment, aṣṭa-sāttvika-vikāra [Cc. Antya 14.99]. There are eight kinds of ecstatic sentiment. That is not possible for ordinary person. When one is advanced, they are visible. That is called budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ.
So we have to understand this fact, that, as Kṛṣṇa says, we have to take knowledge from Kṛṣṇa. We, we are all born fools and rascals. That is the statement of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam [SB 5.5.5]. Parābhava abodha-jātaḥ. Jātaḥ. We are all born fools and rascals. That is a fact. We know. Therefore we are sent to schools for education, because we are fools and rascals.
Unfortunately, after so-called education also, we remain fools and rascals. Because we do not know... There is no educational system to understand ātma-tattvam. Ātma-tattvam. The human life is meant for understanding ātma-tattvam. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Brahman, ātmā, the same thing, absolute. The human life is meant for inquiring about ātmā, what I am. And when he comes to the understanding ahaṁ brahmāsmi, that is his perfected education... Otherwise he remains a fool, rascal.
So there is no educational system to teach people that he's not this body; he is ātmā, spirit soul. That is the beginning of spiritual education. In the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa first teaches this principle that,
dehino 'smin yathā dehe
kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
tathā dehāntara-prāptir
dhīras tatra na muhyati
[Bg. 2.13]
Asmin dehe. Dehī. There is soul. Not that, that "I am this body." So the soul is moving the body, not the body is moving the soul. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the Supersoul. Kṛṣṇa is the Supersoul. That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā = viṣṭabhya aham idaṁ kṛtsnam ekāṁśena sthito jagat [Bg. 10.42]. Viṣṭabhya, entering. "Because I have entered within this material world...," viṣṭabhya aham idaṁ kṛtsnam. One partial representation, Paramātmā---ātmā and Paramātmā. Just like we, we are ātmās. We have entered this body; therefore it is moving.
Similarly, the Paramātmā, the Supersoul, He has entered within this material world; therefore it is moving. Just like immediately we heard some sound of the motorcycle. How it is sounding? Because the driver is there. He is pushing some button. Immediately there is sound = but-but-but-but-but. Otherwise, the motorcycle may remain there for thousands of years. There will be no more sound.
Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. It is Kṛṣṇa who has entered this material world, and He is supervising all the actions and reaction of this material world. Therefore it is moving. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ. Prakṛti has no power. These rascals, foolish person, they are thinking that the prakṛti is working automatically. No. That is not possible. Prakṛti is jaḍa. Jaḍa-prakṛti. Jaḍa-prakṛti, without any sense. The motorcar has got the wheels, the machine, everything, but it has no sense. So unless there is a sensible driver there, it cannot move. Very plain truth. Anyone can understand.
But we are so foolishly educated that we do not accept this fact. We say that "Matter is the cause of life." We do not accept this theory that life is the cause of matter. Because they are atheistic persons. As soon as they accept that life is the cause of matter, they have to accept God. Immediately. Immediately they have to accept God.
So these atheistic persons, in order to avoid Kṛṣṇa consciousness, in order to avoid Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Person, they push forward this theory that life is caused by matter. But that is not the fact. There are many instances. We can give many instances that life produces matter. Life... I can give you one small example. Just take, for example, one lemon tree. Lemon tree, it is also a living entity. Because there are 8,400,000 species of living entities. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati [Padma Purāṇa].
Sthāvarāḥ means these trees, plants, creepers. They are two millions of varieties. So this ordinary lemon tree is producing so many lemon. And the lemon means citric acid. So if you take all these lemons, and take their juice, so one ordinary lemon tree produces tons of citric acid. It is a small living entity.
So similarly, we are also producing, with our perspiration, water. And the water is salty also. We have got, everyone, experience. Now it is the question of limited and unlimited. We are limited. We are producing a little quantity of water by perspiration which contains salt, salty water. If I am able to produce unlimited quantity of water, salty, that is sea and ocean. That is sea and ocean. What is this sea and ocean? That is perspiration of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He has got such potency, unlimited. Unlimited potency.
So where is the difficulty to understand that when Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ [Bg. 10.8] = "I produce everything..." The chemists, the scientists, they're beginning from chemical, but wherefrom the chemical came? That came from Kṛṣṇa. If some chemicals come, come from an insignificant lemon tree, how much chemicals can come from Kṛṣṇa?
Yato vā imāni bhūtāni jāyante [Taittirīya Upaniṣad 3.1]. It is a simple, commonsense affair to understand that matter comes from life. And the Supreme Life is Kṛṣṇa. The Supreme Life is Kṛṣṇa. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān [Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13]. These are the version of the Upaniṣads. Kṛṣṇa, or God... What is God? God means the Supreme Person. That's all. Just like I am person; you are also person. You may be bigger in quality, in opulence, than me, and somebody else may bigger..., may be bigger than you, somebody else bigger than him. So similarly you go on, searching after who is the biggest. Then you come to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is person. Simply go on searching, as we search = here is a big man, and here is a bigger man, here is another biggest man. So go on, go on, you go up to Brahmā.
Then after Brahmā... Brahmā is also not the ultimate. Because from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam we understand, tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye [SB 1.1.1]. Ādi-kavaye. Ādi-kavi is Brahmā. Brahmā is also educated by superior person. Tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ. Brahmā is also educated. He's not self-sufficient. He gets education from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa haite catur-mukha.
So in this way, if we try to find out, if we'll find out, if we are actually sincere to find out the ultimate source of everything, then you will come to Kṛṣṇa, which is confirmed by Kṛṣṇa = ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ [Bg. 10.8]. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. Kṛṣṇa says this. And we have to take it, with intelligence, with good brain. Otherwise we cannot understand. Therefore those who are less intelligent, foolish rascals, they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Because they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa, they do not take to Kṛṣṇa. They do not surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says,
na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
prapadyante narādhamāḥ
māyayāpahṛta-jñānā
āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
[Bg. 7.15]
As soon as we see one has not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, immediately we can accept he's either a duṣkṛtinaḥ, a mūḍhaḥ, a narādhamaḥ, māyayāpahṛta-jñānaḥ. Immediately.
So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is especially interested to broadcast the news that "You are searching after God. Here is God. You do not know what is the name of God. Here is the name = Kṛṣṇa. You do not know what is the address of God." We say, "Here is = Vaikuṇṭha, Goloka." We can give Kṛṣṇa's father's name. Everything we can give. Just like if you want to know somebody, you want to know his name, his address, his father's name---everything. So we can supply. Why you are searching?
Here is God. Not only I am speaking, but all the great ācāryas, they also speak. India is guided. Now we have lost our culture, but our Vedic culture is maintained and guided by big, big ācāryas like Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya. But we have given ācārya patha. We are inventing our own ways. Now it is. We are inventing our own ways of understanding God. Yato mata tato patha. That is foolishness. No scientific knowledge can be attained by whimsical ways. No. You must accept the prescribed method. "Two plus two equal to four" always. You cannot make it "five" or "three." That is not science. Similarly, if you want to know Kṛṣṇa, then as Kṛṣṇa says you have to understand.
Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is, without any interpretation. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the Supreme Person"; we say, "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person." Kṛṣṇa says that He's the background of this cosmic manifestation; we present, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is the cause of all material cosmic manifestation." This is our program. So our only request is those who are intelligent person, let them understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is not meant for the foolish person. Because foolish person cannot understand. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. The foolish person, after endeavoring many thousands of births, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante, if he's actually inquisitive, jñānī...
Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtino 'rjuna ārto arthārthī jñānī jijñāsuḥ ca bharatarṣabha [Bg. 7.16]. Four classes of men, they become inquisitive to understand Kṛṣṇa, or God. Ārto arthārthī jñānī jijñāsuḥ. So ārto arthārthī, ordinary men, when one is in need of money, when one is in distress, they go to God for relief. But although they go to God for..., with some motive, still they have been described as sukṛtinaḥ. Sukṛtinaḥ, pious. Background is piety. Otherwise, nobody can go. And those who are duskṛtinaḥ, always engaged in sinful activities, they cannot go to Kṛṣṇa. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15].
Therefore, we first of all try to make people sukṛtinaḥ. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. He'll become sukṛtī. He'll get some pious assets. Then he'll be able to understand Kṛṣṇa. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has introduced this method, and actually this method has been successful now all over the world. We began, "Simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Simply chant." So all these foreign students who have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness very seriously, they began simply with chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. It is not difficult.
Everyone can chant. Where is the difficulty? Everyone can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare... Where is the difficulty? But they'll not chant. They'll not chant. They'll talk so many rubbish things, but as soon as you ask him to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, he'll be silent. That we have experienced. But still our thankless task is to induce everyone = "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa."
There is a cartoon picture in New York, one old man and his wife, sitting together. The wife is requesting the husband, old husband, "Chant, chant, chant," and the husband is replying, "Can't, can't, can't." [laughter] This cartoon we have seen. So this is the... He will say three times, "Can't, can't, can't," but not "Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa." That is not possible. A similar story is there in the Bengal. One old mother was dying, and the sons requested the mother, "Mother, now you say 'Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa.' " So after requesting two, three times, mother became disgusted = atha katha nivalta nare.[?] So atha katha nivalta nare[?] she could say. Not Hare Kṛṣṇa. Not Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is the position.
We are going door to door = "Please chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." This is our only propaganda. But it is a very difficult, we are experiencing. Although innocent children, they take part. Just now we went to some gentleman's, kavirāja's house. We began kīrtana. And a small children immediately began... Yes. Naturally. Because those who are sukṛtinaḥ, because he's not..., the child is not yet polluted, therefore immediately he could join, "Hare Kṛṣṇa." This is the position.
So our only request is, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is, that it doesn't require much education or intelligence or opulence. In whatever condition you are, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then gradually everything will be clear and you'll be able to understand how Kṛṣṇa is conducting.
mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ
sūyate sa-carācaram
hetunānena kaunteya
jagad viparivartate
[Bg. 9.10]
Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Devotees: Haribol. [kīrtana] [end]