Pradyumna: [chanting verse] ghaṭetārtha-sambandhaḥ. [devotees repeat]
Prabhupāda: [indistinct] It is sandhi? Na ghaṭeta artha. It has been lost?
Pradyumna: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Na ghaṭetārtha-sambandhaḥ. Na ghaṭetārtha-sambandhaḥ. Na ghaṭetārtha-sambandhaḥ.
Again, recite the whole śloka.
Pradyumna: [Prabhupāda and devotees repeating]
śrī śuka uvāca
ātma-māyām ṛte rājan
na ghaṭetārtha-sambandhaḥ
svapna-draṣṭur ivāñjasā
[SB 2.9.1]
Svapna. Draṣṭur. Svapna-draṣṭur. Iva. Añjasā. Ivāñjasā.
Prabhupāda: Svapna-draṣṭur ivāñjasā.
Pradyumna: Svapna-draṣṭur ivāñjasā. [devotees repeat]
Prabhupāda: Now read again.
Pradyumna: Whole thing?
Prabhupāda: No, this same verse. Practice it. In this way you practice one mantra daily. Each mantra will purify you hundred yards daily. Go forward. These mantras, these mantras are very powerful, given by Vyāsadeva Gosvāmī, vibrated. And spoken by... Śuka-mukhād drava-saṁyutam. That is explained in the beginning.
Just like a ripened fruit in the tree is already very sweet, and if it is touched by the beak of the parrot, it becomes sweeter. These are natural course. If the parrot touches the fruit, he cuts little by his beak, beak... It is called beak? Then it becomes still sweeter. Śuka-mukhād drava-saṁyutam.
Similarly, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is already sublime, transcendental. And when it is spoken through the mouth of Śukadeva Gosvāmī, it becomes still sweeter, just like the fruit. The parrot is also called śuka. It is called śuka-pakṣi, śuka bird. So this comparison is given.
As the fruit becomes still sweeter by the touch of the beak of the parrot, similarly, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, because it is already spoken by Vyāsadeva, ripened fruit, the experienced contribution of Vyāsadeva, all the Vedic literatures, but when it is spoken through the paramparā system of Śukadeva Gosvāmī, it becomes still sweeter.
Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommended to study Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam from bhāgavatam. Bhāgavata para giyā bhāgavata sthāne. Bhāgavata means the grantha-bhāgavata, book bhāgavata... Bhāgavata means about Kṛṣṇa. Bhagavān is Kṛṣṇa. And anything in relationship with Kṛṣṇa is called bhāgavata.
So the devotee is also in relationship with Kṛṣṇa. He is also called bhāgavata, mahā-bhāgavata. Those who are highly advanced, or first-class devotees, they are called mahā-bhāgavata. So this Bhāgavatam, it is the essence of the Vedic knowledge, and when it is received through the paramparā system of pure devotees, then it becomes still more sweet than before. That is the purpose.
So we should try to learn, get it by heart, at least one śloka, two śloka in a week. And if we chant that... Just like you are chanting so many songs, similarly, if we chant one or two verses of Bhāgavatam, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that will make you very quickly advanced for spiritual realization. We are therefore taking so much trouble to get this transliteration, the meaning, so that the reader may take advanced step, full advantage of the mantra.
It is not that to show some scholarship, that "I know so much Sanskrit." No. It is just offered with humility to learn the mantra. Because one who will chant the mantra by... They are all transcendental vibration. Just Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, this is mahā-mantra, but they are also mantras, all the verses from Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, spoken by Kṛṣṇa, spoken by... Bhāgavata also, spoken by Kṛṣṇa. Vyāsadeva is incarnation of Kṛṣṇa. They're also mantras, infallible instruction. So try to get it by heart, chanting. Either you chant by seeing the book or get it by heart, it is all the same. But try to chant one, two ślokas daily. Chant.
Pradyumna: [chants, with devotees responding]
śrī śuka uvāca
ātma-māyām ṛte rājan
na ghaṭetārtha-sambandhaḥ...
[SB 2.9.1]
Prabhupāda: [correcting] Na ghaṭetārtha-sambandhaḥ. [devotees repeat] Like that. It is written like that?
Pradyumna: Ghaṭetārtha-sambandhaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Artha, artha separated?
Pradyumna: No. Together. Ghaṭetārtha.
Prabhupāda: No. Ghaṭetārtha-sambandhaḥ. It should, should not be. Na ghaṭetārtha-sambandhaḥ. Like that. should be long. Tā. Ghaṭeta artha-sambandhaḥ. Na ghaṭetārtha-sambandhaḥ. Is that all right?
Pradyumna: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So pronounce like that.
Pradyumna: Na ghaṭetārtha-sambandhaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Loud. Na ghaṭetārtha-sambandhaḥ.
Pradyumna: Na ghaṭetārtha-sambandhaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Na ghaṭetārtha-sambandhaḥ.
Devotees: Na ghaṭetārtha-sambandhaḥ.
Pradyumna: Svapna-draṣṭur ivāñjasā.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Again pronounce.
Pradyumna: [devotees repeating]
śrī śuka uvāca
ātma-māyām ṛte rājan
na ghaṭetārtha-sambandhaḥ
svapna-draṣṭur ivāñjasā
[SB 2.9.1]
Prabhupāda: Very important verse. Now we shall go to the words and meaning. Again recite. Śrī śuka uvāca. [devotees repeat]
Once again. Do it again.
Pradyumna: [devotees repeating]
śrī śuka uvāca
ātma-māyām ṛte rājan
na ghaṭetārtha-sambandhaḥ
svapna-draṣṭur ivāñjasā
[SB 2.9.1]
Prabhupāda: Again. [devotees repeat verse again] Anyone can recite? All right. See the book and recite.
śrī-śuka uvāca
ātma-māyām ṛte rājan
[SB 2.9.1]
Prabhupāda: Parasyā. It is, the transliteration gives the long a. You have seen? You just try to follow the transliteration. That will be easier.
Śyāmasundara: Parasyānu...
Prabhupāda: Parasyānubhava, bhavātmanaḥ. [devotees repeat] Ātmā.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. Long a over a. Ātmanaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, beginning.
Śyāmasundara: Parasyānu...
Prabhupāda: No. First line.
Śyāmasundara: [devotees repeating]
śrī śuka uvāca
ātma-māyām ṛte rājan
[SB 2.9.1]
Prabhupāda: Parasyānubhavātmanaḥ. Read it again.
Śyāmasundara: [devotees repeating]
śrī śuka uvāca
ātma-māyām ṛte rājan
na ghaṭetārtha...
[SB 2.9.1]
Prabhupāda: Na ghaṭetārtha-sambandhaḥ. [devotees repeat] Svapna-draṣṭur ivāñjasā. [devotees repeat] Next. Next. You read. Go on. One after another. [devotees continue reciting, Prabhupāda correcting]
You read the transliteration. The thing is, hearing the meter and repeat. That's all. The writing is already there, transliteration. Simply you have to hear the written. Just like you have chanted so many verses, songs, by hearing. The hearing is very important. A child learns another language simply by hearing, pronunciation, hearing. That is natural. If we hear one thing repeatedly, you will learn. You will learn. So one has to hear little attentively. Then it will be easy.
You will have no difficulty. Just like you are singing our song in tune, [sings] saṁsāra-dāvānala-līḍha-loka. This is by hearing. So simply you have to hear. Therefore whole Vedic śāstra is called śruti. It is a process of hearing. [coughing] This is the disease of old age. These are the warnings that the body is getting rotten. Go on.
[recitation continues, falteringly]
Next man. To give next man. Each one of you. [recitation continues] Na ghaṭetārtha-sambandhaḥ. [devotees repeat] Next. Each one of you. [recitation continues] Na ghaṭetārtha-sambandhaḥ, [devotees repeat] svapna-draṣṭur ivāñjasā. [devotees repeat] What is the añjasā spelling?
Devotee: I-v-a-n-j-a-s-a. Ivāñjasā.
Prabhupāda: That long a or short a?
Devotee: Long a.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Ivāñjasā. Añjasā. Añjasā means wholesale. Go on. [recitation and corrections continue] Na ghaṭeta artha sambandhaḥ, combined together it becomes na ghaṭetārtha-sambandhaḥ. Tārtha. What is the spelling? Tārtha?
Devotee: T, long a, r-t-h-a.
Prabhupāda: Uh? Tha? What is the...?
Devotee: T-a-r-t-h-a. Na ghaṭa...
Prabhupāda: T-h-a. There must be r.
Pradyumna: Yes. Ghaṭetārtha. G-h-a-t-e-t-a-r...
Prabhupāda: T-a-r. Yes. T-a, artha. So you were missing that r. Na ghaṭetārtha-sambandhaḥ. All right. Next. Next. [recitation and correction continues] Get it next. Come here.
So you have to study like that. So many ślokas; I am taking so much labor. If you do not read it carefully... It is not for that I am making business, for selling only, and not for my students. You must all read like this, practice. Why so much trouble is being taken, word-to-word meaning and then transliteration? If you chant this mantra, that vibration will cleanse the atmosphere. And wherever you go, in any part of the world, if you can chant this mantra, oh, you'll be received like god. It is so nice. And in India he'll actually receive like gods if you chant this mantra. They will so offer their respects, so many. Veda-mantra.
Next, chant. [another devotee recites verse; Prabhupāda corrects] Very good. Next, next. Bhānu prabhu [Bhānu recites] Thank you very much. He has pronounced very nicely. So he will teach you. Yes. Next. [another devotee recites verse] Very good. [another devotee recites verse] Very good. Yes. In this way, each one of you, you chant and others will follow. Then one or two days, you get the śloka by heart. You can chant. It is not difficult. Now read the word meanings and translation.
Karandhara: Śrī-śukaḥ uvāca---Śrī Śukadeva Gosvāmī said; ātma---the Supreme Personality of Godhead; māyām---the energy; ṛte--- without; rājan---O King..."
Prabhupāda: Rājan.
Karandhara: "Rājan---O King."
Prabhupāda: It is address, addressing. Nominative is rāja and addressive is rājan. Go on.
Karandhara: Parasyāsya...
Prabhupāda: Parasya.
Karandhara: Parasya.
Prabhupāda: Parasya. Yes.
Karandhara: "Parasya---of the pure soul; anubhava-ātmanaḥ--- of the purely conscious; na---never; ghaṭeta---it can so happen; artha---meaning; sambandhaḥ---relation with the material body; svapna---dream; draṣṭuḥ---of the seer; iva---like it; añjasā---completely."
Prabhupāda: Añjasā.
Karandhara: Añjasā---completely.
Translation = "Śrī Śukadeva Gosvāmī said = O King, unless one is influenced by the energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, there is no meaning to the relationship of the pure soul in pure consciousness with the material body. It is just like the dreamer seeing his own body working."
Prabhupāda: So, purport?
Karandhara: Purport. "The question of Mahārāja Parīkṣit is perfectly answered as to how a living entity began his material life, although he is apart from the material body and the mind."
Prabhupāda: It is very important question. Parīkṣit Mahārāja inquired---many people inquired---so, "How the living entity was with Kṛṣṇa, he became fallen in this material world?" Is not done? This question is raised. So this question is answered here, that "How the living entity who was with Kṛṣṇa became fallen down in contact with this material qualities." So this is the answer. Read the translation.
Karandhara: "Śrī Śukadeva Gosvāmī said = O King, unless one is influenced by the energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead..."
Prabhupāda: It is simply the influence of the material energy, nothing. Actually he has not fallen. The another example given is given = just like the moon is covered with scattered cloud, the passing cloud. You have seen. Everyone has experience. The cloud passes, and it appears that the moon is moving. Have you seen this?
Devotees: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Actually the moon is not moving. It is a māyā, illusion. It appears that the moon is moving. But similarly, the living entity, because he is spiritual spark of the Supreme, it has not fallen. It has not fallen. But he is thinking, "I am fallen. I am material." That is the reason. He is thinking, "I am this body." Actually the body has no connection with me. That is experienced, that the body has no connection with the soul. The body is changing, dying, but I am the same. The same example, the moon = The cloud is passing over in different way. The moon is far away from the cloud, and it has nothing to do with the cloud, but it appears the moon is moving. [break]
Try to understand. Have questions and answer. It is very important thing. Ātma-māyām ṛte rājan. Except ātma-māyā, the illusory energy... It is the maneuver or handling of the illusory energy of Kṛṣṇa. This illusory energy develops when we forget Kṛṣṇa. That's all. It is... In other words, this illusory identification of me with the body is simply due to my forgetfulness. We wanted to forget; we wanted to give up Kṛṣṇa and wanted to enjoy this material world. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is giving us...
Just like when you play some part in a drama, if you feel that "I am king," then you can talk very nicely. And if you feel that "I am Karandhara," then you cannot play nicely. Is it not? Feeling must be there. If you are playing the part of a king, then you must have the same courage and belief that "I am king." You have to forget that you are Karandhara. Then your part will be very nicely played. It will be appreciated. But if you think simultaneously that "I am Karandhara. I am taking..., playing the part of the king," then you cannot play.
So because we wanted to play the part of Kṛṣṇa, enjoyer, Kṛṣṇa is giving us chance that "You feel like Me---'I am king.' 'I am Kṛṣṇa.' 'I am God.' " [laughter] All these rascals, those who are feeling like that, "I am master," "I am king," "I am Kṛṣṇa," "I am God," they are all simply in that feeling only. That's all. And this feeling is created by Kṛṣṇa = "All right. You want to play the part of a king, I shall train you in such a way." Just like the director means, dramatic director means, he creates a feeling. His direction is nothing but how to feel.
Sometimes we played in our younger age Caitanya-līlā. I introduced. And one big director, Amrita Lal Ghosh, he was just like grandfather; he was one of the, just like in England Shakespeare and others, big, big dramatic, well-known persons. This Amrita Lal Ghosh and Girish Chandra Ghosh, they introduced in India theatric. So we called him to give us direction. He was giving us direction, and repeatedly he was telling that "You feel like that," especially to me. "You feel like that." So actually, when we played according to his direction, the audience were all crying. And we could not understand how they cried. We could not understand. On the stage when we played, it was so perfect that all audience were crying. Actually we saw they were smearing over their eyes with... But the whole thing is artificial, but the effect to the audience became so nice.
So similarly, we are... Actually, we have nothing to do with this material world. But we have been trained by the illusory energy in such a way that we are thinking, "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am this," "I am that," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am śūdra," "I have to do this," "I have got so much duty"---all these illusions, simply thinking. We have nothing to do with all this nonsense, but still, we are taking it very serious = "I have to do like that. I have to do like that. I am this. I am that." That's all. That is explained. Ātma-māyām ṛte rājan: "Except the influence of that ātmā-māyā, the illusory energy of Kṛṣṇa..." Ātma-māyā. Read. Ātma-māyām ṛte rājan parasyānu... Read it?
Karandhara: Parasyānubhavātmanaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Parasyānubhavātmanaḥ. Na ghaṭeta artha-sambandha. There cannot be any relation at all. Na ghaṭeta. Cannot be. Artha sambandhaḥ. Svapna-draṣṭur ivāñjasā. The very exact example is given, svapna-draṣṭuḥ. Just like a man seeing dream = "Oh, there is tiger, tiger, tiger, tiger! Save me!" He is crying. Another man is, "Where is tiger? Why you are crying? Where is tiger?" But he, in the dream, he is actually feeling, "The tiger has attacked me." Therefore this example is given, na ghaṭetārtha-sambandhaḥ. There cannot be any meaning of this relationship except like a man dreaming, and he is creating a situation. He is dreaming there is a tiger and he is creating a situation, fearful situation. Actually there is no cause of fear. There is no tiger. That situation is created by dream. Actually there is no tiger.
Similarly, we have created this material world and activities. People are running, "Oh..., sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh," identifying that "Oh, I am the manager," "I am the factory owner," "I am this," "I am that," "We have got these politics," "We have to defeat such competitors." All these things are created exactly like that, svapna-draṣṭur ivāñjasā, just like a man is creating his particular situation simply by dream. That's all.
So the answer is, when somebody asks you that "When one has become in contact with this material nature?" he has not become in contact. He is thinking by the influence of the external energy. Just like the same example = a man is dreaming; there is no contact with tiger. Actually he has no contact with that. Similarly, actually we are not fallen. We cannot be fallen. But we have created a situation that we are..., become. Try to understand on this point. It is very important point. We have simply created a situation. We have not created a situation; Kṛṣṇa has given us a situation. Because we wanted to imitate Kṛṣṇa, so Kṛṣṇa has given an opportunity = "All right. Imitate. You want to be imitation king in the stage. So feel like this. Play like this. Do like this. People will applaud = 'Oh, a very nice king. Very nice.' " So that is the...
So everyone in this material world, they are playing some part. They wanted, "I want to be prime minister." "All right." "I want to become very big business magnate." "I want to be leader." "I want to be a philosopher." "I want to be a scientist." So all this nonsense, they are trying to play---Kṛṣṇa is giving him the opportunity = "All right." But it is a nonsense, all nonsense. Simple dreaming. Just like you are dreaming; next moment when the dream is gone, everything is finished = no more tiger, no more jungle, no more... Everything is finished. Similarly, so long this body is continuing, I am thinking, "I am a responsible leader, I am this, I am that." But as soon as this body is finished, oh, these are [indistinct] gone.
Sarva-haraś cāham. The death means... Kṛṣṇa says, "I am death. I take it away, all, everything. Gone." Now just think of our past life. Suppose I was a king or something like that. From Bhṛgu-saṁhitā it was ascertained, they said---I do not know---that I was a big physician in my last life, very spotless character, no sin, like that. He explained me. So it may be. But actually I have no remembrance that I was a physician. So what do we know? I might have been a very big physician, influential physician, having a good practice, but where is all...? All gone.
So this situation, our contact with matter, is just like dream. Actually we are not fallen. Therefore, because we are not fallen, at any moment we can revive our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As soon as we understand that "I have nothing to do with. I am simply Kṛṣṇa's servant, eternal servant. That's all," immediately he becomes liberated. Exactly like that = as soon as you... Sometimes we do that. When the fearful dreaming becomes too much intolerable, we break the dream. We break the dream; otherwise it becomes intolerable.
Similarly, we can break this material connection at any moment as soon as we come to the point of Kṛṣṇa conscious = "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is my eternal master. I am His servant." That's all. This is the way. Actually we are not fallen. There cannot be any fallen. The same example = actually there is no tiger; it is dreaming. Similarly, our fallen condition is also dreaming. We are not fallen. We can simply give up that illusory condition at any moment. At any moment. So if you study all these verses very nicely, you get all this knowledge quickly.
Now what is the purport? Come on.
Karandhara: "The spirit soul is distinct from the material conception of his life."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Distinct. Always distinct. Next?
Karandhara: "But he is absorbed in such a material conception because of being influenced by the external energy of the Lord, called ātma-māyā. This is already explained in the First Canto in connection with Vyāsadeva's realization of the Supreme Lord and His external energy. The external energy is controlled by the Lord, and the living entities are controlled by the external energy."
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa said, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14] = "As soon as one surrenders unto Me, he has no more illusion." Māyām etaṁ taranti. Immediately. So people are conditioned, encaged. So many big, big words. The Māyāvādī, they are undergoing austerities and penances just to become liberated. Yogīs, they are also trying to become one. So many endeavors are going on. But the simple process is, as soon as you surrender, that you are not fallen = "It was illusion. I was dreaming. I am Kṛṣṇa's," finished. All gone. "I am Kṛṣṇa's. I am Kṛṣṇa's eternal servant. These are all nonsense"---he immediately becomes liberated. Just try to understand. Immediately, within a second. Liberation can be attained within a second, provided we abide by the order of Kṛṣṇa. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is the position. We are not fallen. We are thinking fallen.
So we have to give up this nonsense thinking. Then we are liberated. There is no... Is there any difficulty to understand? Just see how important this verse. It is already there, but you are not reading. Each verse, read every day carefully. Try to assimilate, understand, and you will get more profit, every day hundred yards forward, hundred yards forward. Yes. They are so important verses. How nicely composed by Vyāsadeva. In two lines the whole thing is explained. This is called śāstra. In two lines. Then read the purport.
Karandhara: "The external energy is controlled by the Lord, and the living entities are controlled by the external energy by the will of the Lord. Therefore, although the living entity is purely conscious in his pure state, he is subordinate to the will of the Lord, being influenced by the external energy of the Lord.
"In the Bhagavad-gītā also the same thing is confirmed, that the Lord is present within the heart of every living entity, and all consciousness and forgetfulness of the living entity are influenced by the Lord."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because... Now, people may say that "Why Kṛṣṇa within the heart gives one type of consciousness to one, and another type of consciousness...?" Because I wanted. I wanted to forget Kṛṣṇa, so Kṛṣṇa is giving consciousness = "All right, you can forget Me in this way." That is His kindness. Just like the Māyāvādīs, the so-called yogīs and karmīs, they wanted to forget. Kṛṣṇa is giving intelligence = "All right. You forget Me like this." That's all. Go on. And if you want to again revive your relationship, Kṛṣṇa will give you intelligence. Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi taṁ yena mām upayānti te: "I shall give intelligence." So Kṛṣṇa is... Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante [Bg. 4.11]. As you want, Kṛṣṇa gives you facility. Go on.
Karandhara: "Now the next question will automatically be made as to why the Lord influences the living entity to such consciousness and forgetfulness. The answer is that the Lord clearly wishes that every living entity be engaged in his pure consciousness as the part and parcel of the Lord, and thus be engaged in the loving service of the Lord as he is constitutionally made. But because the living entity is partially independent also, he may not be willing to serve the Lord, but may try to become independent, as the Lord is. The whole nondevotee class of living entities are all desirous of becoming equally as powerful as the Lord, although they are not fit to become so. The living entities are..."
Prabhupāda: They will never be God, but we see so many persons, by the influence of the illusory energy they think, "I am God. I am God," "I shall become God by pressing my nose like this, doing this." So this is going on. They will never be able. That is not possible. Otherwise, there is no meaning of "God." If everyone can become God, then there is no meaning of God. But by influence of... Just like karmīs are saying, "I shall become millionaire," "I shall become trillionaire," "I shall become head of the state," "I shall become prime minister." This struggle, this is another struggle = "I shall become God." This is another struggle. But it is illusion. It is illusion.
So Kṛṣṇa gives them opportunity, some yogic success. Just like in India there is a rascal, he makes like that, and there is immediately some gold. And people become after him = "Oh, he is God. He is God. He is God." By producing a little gold, he becomes God. Another yogī, he gives immediately two rasagullā. So by producing two rasagullā, four annas' worth, he becomes God. You see? This is illusion. These rascals, they do not know that "What is this rasagullā, two rasagullā? I can purchase from the market for four annas. So he is becoming God by four annas?" But they have no sense. "Oh, he is God. He can produce rasagullā." Rasagullā I can produce in our kitchen. But they are so rascal = "Oh, wonderful."
So the yogic siddhis... So Kṛṣṇa gives him some power of yogic siddhi and he thinks that "I have become God," and some flatterers, they also think, "Oh, you are God." The same dream. And as soon as death comes, everything finished---your godhood and everything finished. Now becomes doghood, come to the stage of doghood. Again, another dream = "I am dog." First of all "I am God," then next thing, "I am dog." This is going on.
Therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura said, keno māyār bośe jāccho bhese' [Gītāvalī] = "Why you are being washed away by the waves of māyā? Just fix up. Stand up." Jīv kṛṣṇa-dās ei viśwās korle to ār duḥkho nāi. You simply remain fixed up on this standpoint, that "I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa." Then there is no more dream. And if you allow yourself to be washed away, Kṛṣṇa gives you facility, "All right, come on. Be washed away." Then?
Karandhara: "The living entities are illusioned by the will of the Lord because they wanted to become like Him."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Karandhara: "As a person thinks of becoming a king without possessing the necessary qualifications, similarly, when the living entity desires to become the Lord Himself, he is put in a condition of dreaming that he is a king. Therefore the first sinful will of the living entity is to become the Lord, and the consequent will of the Lord is that the living entity forgets his actual life and thus dreams of the land of Utopia where he may become one like the Lord. The child cries to have the moon from the mother, and the mother gives the child a mirror to satisfy the crying and disturbing child with the shadow of the moon. Similarly, the crying child of the Lord is given over to the shadow of the material world to lord it over as a karmī and to give this up in frustration to become one with the Lord. Both these stages are dreaming illusions only.
"There is no necessity of tracing out the history when the living entity desired this, but the fact is that as soon as he desired such, he was put under the control of ātma-māyā by the direction of the Lord. Therefore the living entity in his material condition is dreaming falsely that this is 'mine' and this is 'I.' The dream is that the conditioned soul thinks of his material body as 'I' or falsely thinks that he is the lord and that everything in connection with the material body is 'mine.' Thus in dream only the misconception of 'I' and 'mine' persist life after life. This continues life after life, as long as the living entity is not purely conscious of his identity as the subordinate part and parcel of the Lord. In his pure consciousness, however, there is no such misconceived dream. And in that pure conscious state the living entity does not forget that he is never the Lord, but he is eternally the servitor of the Lord in transcendental love."
Prabhupāda: That's all.
Devotees: All glories to you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. [obeisances]
Trivikrama: Śrīla Prabhupāda? You were just saying that we are not fallen. Actually this is an illusion thinking that we are fallen. Yet I [indistinct]
Prabhupāda: The same example = In dream I am not attacked by the tiger, but I am thinking, "Oh, tiger is there." It is a simply dreaming condition.
Trivikrama: But so many Vaiṣṇavas are [indistinct]
Prabhupāda: So as soon as you understand that "This is not... I am not in contact with tiger. It is all a dream," then you are delivered. Similarly, as soon as you understand, "All this material condition of life we are simply dreaming; I am actually servant of Kṛṣṇa," then you are liberated. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious. If you keep in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that "I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa," then you are liberated.
Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyaya kalpate [Bg. 14.26], Kṛṣṇa says. Immediately brahma-bhūtaḥ. Brahmā-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. He has no more lamentation, no more hankering. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu: he can see everyone on equal vision. Because he knows, "Here is also another living entity. He is not a Chinaman. He is a part and parcel of God. He is not a Christian. He is not a Hindu. He is simply thinking like that." So give him Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is real benefit, to bring him to the original position. Yes?
Cintāmaṇi: If, when we realize Kṛṣṇa, then we have no more desires, then how can we desire...
Prabhupāda: You create desire. If you simply keep this contact with Kṛṣṇa, then there is no more any other desire than to serve Kṛṣṇa. That's all.
Trivikrama: This feeling that we have that we are fallen, that we are very fallen...
Prabhupāda: That is also illusion. That is also illusion. You are fallen means you have got some certain desires except service of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore the conclusion is that if you keep yourself tightly in Kṛṣṇa's service, there is no question of falling down or there is no question of māyā. You see?
Devotee: Even at that state, still the body is affected by the modes of nature. We are experiencing desires.
Prabhupāda: You are not experiencing; your body is experiencing. You are feeling cold due to this body. You are not feeling cold. You are so... You are not feeling cold.
Devotee: But I think I am feeling cold.
Prabhupāda: You are thinking---that is illusion. That is illusion.
Devotee: To rise above that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But not artificially, but this is the fact. You have to gradually rise to that platform. The fact is this. Just like when you are feverish, actually you are healthy, but it has come. So in the feverish condition you are thinking, "I am now feverish." But this feverish will not..., condition will not stay. You will come to the healthy stage. Therefore don't be disturbed with the feverish condition. Go on with your duty. Don't misidentify, "Now I have become feverish. Everything is finished." No. That is external. It has come; it will go.
That is given in the Bhagavad-gītā = mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ [Bg. 2.14]. The... Just like seasonal changes. Sometimes it is very hot, sometimes very cold, sometimes warm. So these are coming and going. So if there is some feeling of pain and pleasure, simply just tolerate it, but don't be absorbed in that. That's all. Therefore titikṣava. The first symptoms of a saintly person is titikṣava, tolerant. Tolerant.
So go on reading, go on understanding. Everything will be clear. So next? There is kīrtana, or [indistinct]? [end]