[audience talking loudly in background throughout]
Prabhupāda: ... kindly coming here and participating in the great Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
[break] ...in this meeting, the Commissioner of Income Tax...
Host: Sales tax, Sales tax.
Prabhupāda: Sales tax, present here, and he has asked me [loud applause] one intelligent question, which I, I was just going to answer. So I shall try to answer, here in this meeting, what is the objective of this movement. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is a purificatory process.
Consciousness is there, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, avināśi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idaṁ tatam [Bg. 2.17] There are two kinds of consciousness. One consciousness is limited, another consciousness is unlimited. The unlimited consciousness is there in God, and limited consciousness is there in you, in me, and of all living entities. [still much talking in audience]
Host: [calls out for silence]
Prabhupāda: Just like if I pinch your body, you feel pain. This is also consciousness, that "Somebody is pinching me." But if I pinch somebody else, you cannot feel it. Therefore your consciousness or my consciousness is limited within this body. Similarly, there is another consciousness, which is Kṛṣṇa's consciousness, or universal consciousness.
If I pinch your body, He feels that I am pinching somebody, as Paramātmā. These things are explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṣetra-kṣetrajña chapter [Bg. 13.27]. Kṣetra means this body, and kṣetra-jña means the knower of the body. Kṣetra-jña. Jña means knower. So Kṛṣṇa says that each and every body can be kṣetra-jña. I know about the pains and pleasure of my body; you know the pains and pleasure of your body.
Host: [calls for silence again]
Prabhupāda: I think they cannot understand.
Host: [calls for silence and explains in local language that talk is in English, among other things] [break]
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says that kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata [Bg. 13.3]. Just like I am present in my body. I know the pains and pleasure of my body, but Kṛṣṇa, because He is present in everyone's body, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61], He knows the pains and pleasure of all bodies. That is difference between Kṛṣṇa and ourself, or God and ourself. This is the test. Somebody is claiming that "I am God." How you can be God? You cannot know the pains and pleasures of others, but Kṛṣṇa knows. That is the difference between God and living entity.
Host: [calls for silence again] [break]
Prabhupāda: So far consciousness is concerned, God is also conscious, we are also conscious, but our consciousness is limited and God's consciousness is unlimited. That is the difference.
Arjuna, when he was..., he was taking instruction from Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa says that "This yoga system, I explained to the sun-god." And Arjuna inquired, "How is that, Kṛṣṇa? Both You and me, we are born recently. How it is that You say that You explained to the sun-god, long, long years, forty millions of years ago?" Kṛṣṇa answered this point, "My dear Arjuna, you are My eternal friend. You are always with Me. When I instructed the sun-god, you were also present, but you have forgotten. I do not forget."
That is the difference between Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna. Vedāhaṁ samatītāni [Bg. 7.26]. Kṛṣṇa knows everything---whatever had happened in the past, whatever would happen in the future, and what is happening at the present, vedāhaṁ samatītāni. But we do not know. First of all this is..., we should understand this is the difference between God and the living entity. [break]
The jīva are explained in the Bhagavad-gītā as part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. The example is given, just like the fire, big fire, and the sparks. The sparks are small, but in quality they are fire. They are not different from fire. If a spark of fire falls on your cloth, it will immediately burn. So the burning quality is there, either in the big fire or the small fire. Therefore, qualitatively we are one with God, the quality of burning. Another example is just like the drop of the ocean water. Chemical composition of this drop of ocean water is the same as the chemical combination of the big mass of water.
So Kṛṣṇa, He is all-powerful. We are also powerful. Kṛṣṇa can create. We also can create. Kṛṣṇa can create, just like innumerable planets floating in the air. We can create a small, teeny aeroplane or sputnik flying in the air. You see? So the creative power is there, but there is far difference between Kṛṣṇa's creative power and my creative power. Kṛṣṇa, in the Vedas it is said,
parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate
svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca
na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇam ca vidyate
na tat-samaś cābhyadikaś ca dṛśyate
[Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 6.8, Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]
The difference between Kṛṣṇa and me is this, that suppose I am painting one nice flower = so I require the brush, I require the color, I require the intelligence, I require the time, so that somehow or other, in few days or in few months, I paint a very nice color fruit, flower or fruit. But Kṛṣṇa's energy is so experienced that by working His energy, many millions of flowers, colorful flowers, come at once. The foolish scientists, they say that it is the work of the nature.
No. Nature is instrumental. Behind nature there is brain of God, Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. One who is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he understands that this flower has not come blindly. These varieties of flowers, trees and leaves, they are developing under direction of Kṛṣṇa. But His direction is so powerful it comes at once, svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. Just like a great scientist pushing on a button, electronics. Immediately something wonderful happens. But it is not that the machine is working; it is the scientist who is pushing on the button. Similarly, don't take..., this is nonsense that nature is producing. No. Nature cannot produce.
Therefore Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā,
mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ
sūyate sa-carācaram
hetunānena kaunteya
jagad viparivartate
[Bg. 9.10]
"Mayādhyakṣeṇa, under My supervision, the nature is working." Not blindly. This is not something ignorance. This is crude knowledge. Just like a child, he sees that aeroplane is running on the sky. He may think that the aeroplane is running automatically, by itself. No. The machine, without being touched by the pilot, cannot work. The machine may be perfect, very nice, but the pilot is required.
So at the present moment the civilization is trying to avoid God, the brain of God. That is foolishness. That is not fact. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā,
mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ
sūyate sa-carācaram
hetunānena kaunteya
jagad viparivartate
[Bg. 9.10]
So the Kṛṣṇa conscious person sees, behind nature, the hand of God. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. [break]
In this connection there is one verse in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa,
jyotsnā vistāriṇī yathā
parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktis
tathedam akhilaṁ jagat
[Viṣṇu Purāṇa 1.22.56]
What is this world, manifestation, this is explained. Just like the fire is existing... Just like the sun, sun is an emblem of fire, and ninety-three millions of miles away it is situated, eka sthāni sthitasya. But because it is fiery planet, its heat and light is expanded, and in that heat and light everything is being generated. Just like, we have got practical experience, in Western countries, where there is no sufficient heat and light, the trees and the flowers do not grow so luxuriously, because there is want of heat and light. And when there is snowfall, when there is no sunlight, everything, the trees become without any leaf, dry, śuṣka.
So as it is the cause of the different leaves and flowers and fruit is the heat and light of the sun, similarly, Kṛṣṇa has got two kinds of energies. That is also heat and light. That heat and light is spiritual energy and material energy. The material energy... Not material energy; material energy is practically darkness, there is no light. [host shouts to ask for quiet] The Vedic instruction is therefore that don't keep yourself within this darkness, tamasi mā jyotir gamaḥ. There is another sky. Just like in this sky, you will find it is darkness. Naturally it is darkness. Because there is darkness, therefore Kṛṣṇa has created the sun.
It is stated in the Brahma-saṁhitā. It is said,
yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇāṁ
rājā samasta-sura-mūrtir aśeṣa-tejāḥ
yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakro
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
[Bs. 5.52]
The scientists say that the sun is rotating in its orbit so carefully that if it moves from one side, the whole universe will be immediately turned into ice, and if it moves the other side, then immediately the whole universe will be ablaze. So carefully, yasya ajñāyā bhramati. The scientists have seen so far that the sun is moving very carefully---neither this side nor that side; exactly in the orbit. So who has ordered, who has planned this orbit?
The Brahma-saṁhitā informs, yasya-ajñāyā, by whose order the sun is rotating exactly in the orbit, yasyājñāyā bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakro govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. "I am offering..." He is not struck with wonder by the arrangement in the material world, how the sun is moving, how the moon is moving, how the nature is working. He knows that there is a brain, big brain, Kṛṣṇa.
Kṛṣṇa also says,
ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo
mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate
iti matvā bhajante māṁ
budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ
[Bg. 10.8]
Anyone who has understood Kṛṣṇa rightly, in truth, he is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is budhā, he's actually in knowledge, bhāva-samanvitāḥ. Kṛṣṇa is so great. Kṛṣṇa's great power is so great. Generally, people take Kṛṣṇa very slightly = "Oh, Kṛṣṇa danced with the gopīs." They do not know what is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they go to hell by hearing from unauthorized sources this Kṛṣṇa's rasa-līlā. They go to hell. We have to face so many questions sometimes, "Why Kṛṣṇa did like this?"
Because due to this professional Bhāgavata readers, when they read Bhāgavata, they immediately open the rasa-līlā chapter, because they have no other knowledge; they cannot explain. Bhāgavata begins from the very beginning, janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca arthe [SB 1.1.1]. They have no brain to explain all these intricate verses in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, what is Kṛṣṇa, janmādy asya yataḥ. They jump over to the spiritual rasa-līlā, and people misunderstand.
Therefore Kṛṣṇa says,
manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu
kaścid yatati siddhaye
yatatām api siddhānāṁ
kaścin vetti māṁ tattvataḥ
[Bg. 7.3]
One has to understand Kṛṣṇa in truth, then his Kṛṣṇa consciousness will help him how to become budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ. Then he'll be fully engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. One who knows... But how one can know, understand, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness in truth, that is stated by Kṛṣṇa:
brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā
na śocati na kāṅkṣati
samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām
[Bg. 18.54]
After Brahman realization, after being freed from this material contamination, when one becomes actually happy, prasannātmā, na śocati na kāṅkṣati, no anxiety, at that time, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām.
And He especially mentions,
bhaktyā mām abhijānāti
yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ
tato māṁ tattvato jñātvā
viśate tad-anantaram
[Bg. 18.55]
If one tries to understand Kṛṣṇa as He is, not by fiction, not by speculation, not by so-called scholarly, foolish commentation, but Kṛṣṇa should be understood as He is. Then, that is right Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and then one will be able to understand how Kṛṣṇa is working, how the whole world, material atmosphere and material..., cosmic manifestation is working. Then you will understand. Kṛṣṇa says, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10], "under My supervision," to understand Kṛṣṇa.
And anyone who understands Kṛṣṇa scientifically, then he, Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. Not the foolish man; the intelligent man, who knows Kṛṣṇa actually, then the result is tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [Bg. 4.9]. Immediately he becomes liberated. So after giving up this body, he never, no more comes back to accept another this material body. He goes back to home, back to Godhead. [break]
This living entity, part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, how he has got this condition of material life? That can be explained in this way = Just like this fire spark. As long as it is in the fire, it is also just like fire, glowing, glowing. Only it is spark, it is glowing. But if it falls down from the fire, then immediately it becomes extinguished. The glowing quality becomes extinguished. And there are three kinds of different position of the living entity according to the quality of this material nature he associates. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. The living entity is the same, but when he comes into this material world, he associates with three kinds of material qualities = sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa.
So one who is in sattva-guṇa, brahminical qualification, actually, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. One who has got the brahminical qualities by work and actually in life, satya, śama, dama, titikṣa, ārjavam, jñānaṁ-vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.42], so he can understand. Brahma jānāti iti brāhmaṇaḥ, he can understand so how..., what is my relationship with the Supreme Lord. So similarly, one who is in the rajo-guṇa, the example is given = There is a spark.
When it falls down on dry grass, the dry grass becomes blazing. Although the spark is fallen, it causes the atmosphere lighten. And if the spark falls on the wet ground, then it is..., the sparking, the glowing quality may remain for some time, but it will be extinguished. And if it falls down on the water, it is extinguished. Similarly, when the living entity comes to this material world, if by chance he is in the association of the goodness, he keeps God consciousness. And if he is in the association of passion, he is materially busy. And if he associates with the quality of ignorance, he becomes animals or animals-like man.
So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is giving everyone the chance of to become again blazing fire by associating of Kṛṣṇa. The same spark, that extinguished charcoal, or karma, if you put into the fire, it will be again light. Similarly, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to bring forth again the dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness in every living entity.
nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti sādhya kabhu naya
śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte karaye udaya
[Hari-bhakti-vilāsa, Cc Madhya 22.107]
We are just trying to revive it, uttiṣṭhata jāgrata prāpya varān nibhodata [Kaṭha Upaniṣad 1.3.14]. We are trying to awaken the human society to come to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and live this life successfully. That is the program.
Thank you very much. [end]