Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're reading from Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, in the chapter entitled "Karma-Yoga," page 104, verse thirty-one. "One who executes his duty according to My injunction and who follows this teaching faithfully becomes free from the bondage of fruitive actions."

Purport: "This injunction of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, is the essence of all Vedic wisdom."

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is Vedic wisdom? Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ [Bg. 15.15].

[I am seated in everyone's heart, and from Me come remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness. By all the Vedas am I to be known; indeed I am the compiler of Vedānta, and I am the knower of the Vedas.]

Knowledge. Veda means knowledge. What is perfect knowledge? Perfect knowledge is that "My constitutional position is to serve." Bring any man in this world who can say that "I am not servant." Is there any man or woman within this world, within this universe, who is not a servant? Can any one of you say that you are not servant? Is there anyone? Everyone is servant. Somebody is servant of the society, somebody is servant of the country, somebody is servant of his wife or family, or some cats and dogs, ultimately. One must be a servant.

So when a man comes to this knowledg that "I am serving, so why not serve the Supreme?" this is knowledge. This is perfection of knowledge. Nobody can be freed from being a servant. Either you become a servant of God or you become a servant of dog, you must be a servant. So the intelligent person, a wise person, he prefers to..., servant of God, instead of becoming servant of dog.

There is no escape, that one cannot..., one is master. Nobody is master. Everyone is servant. "Therefore one who executes his duties according to My injunction," God's injunctions, "and who follows the teachings faithfully becomes free from bondage." As soon as you become servant to somebody besides God, then you are in bondage. You are in obligation. Obligation there is, but that is not bondage. To become servant of God is not bondage. But servant of dog is a bondage.

So the intelligent person is he who knows that "I am servant, so why not become servant of the greatest?" Just like somebody wants to be worker in government service. Why? Because government is very big establishment, great establishment, he has got many facilities. That is not bondage.

Similarly, why not become the servant of the supreme government? That is perfection of knowledge. So long we are not servant of God, that means we are deficient in knowledge. And perfect knowledge is to become servant of God. Because you cannot escape by not being a servant. Everyone has to become a servant, this side or that side.

Go on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "As the Vedas are eternal, so this truth of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is also eternal. One should have firm faith in this injunction without envying the Lord. There are many so-called philosophers who write comment on the Bhagavad-gītā but have no faith in Kṛṣṇa. They will never be liberated from the bondage of fruitive action. But an ordinary man with firm faith in the eternal injunctions of the Lord, even though unable to execute such orders, becomes liberated from the bondage of the law of karma.

"In the beginning of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, one may not fully discharge the injunctions of the Lord. But because one is not resentful of this principle and works sincerely, without consideration of defeat and hopelessness, he will surely be promoted to the stage of pure Kṛṣṇa consciousness."

Prabhupāda: Yes. In the beginning there may be some failures. That is quite natural. Just a child is trying to stand, he may fall down. But that does not mean he should give up the idea. Go on. A time will come when he will be perfect. So we should not give up this business to try to serve the Supreme. May be imperfect in the beginning, but stick to it, and a time will come when you'll be perfect, Kṛṣṇa conscious. Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Thirty-two: "But those who, out of envy, disregard these teachings and do not practice them regularly are to be considered bereft of all knowledge, befooled, and doomed to ignorance and bondage."

Prabhupāda: Yes. If somebody says, "Oh, why shall I serve God?" all right, then you shall have to serve dog. That's all. Therefore he is befooled. He does not know that he has to serve somebody. His constitutional position is like that. He cannot escape. So therefore if he denies to serve God, Kṛṣṇa, then he has to serve māyā, illusion, in the hope that "I have become the master."

Just like in your..., in country..., in your country the President Johnson was the master. Actually, he was not the master; he was the servant of the country. Now the country has dismissed him; he is no longer master. So our mastership in this material world is like that. Actually, we are servant, but we are thinking master. In a family, I am servant of my wife, I am servant of my children, I am servant of my servants, but I am thinking I am master: "I am master of this family," "I am master of this country," "I am master of this society." Nobody is master.

The Caitanya-caritāmṛta says, therefore, "The master is only Kṛṣṇa." Ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa āra saba bhṛtya [Cc. Ādi 5.142]:

[Lord Kṛṣṇa alone is the supreme controller, and all others are His servants. They dance as He makes them do so.]

"Only Kṛṣṇa, or God, is master, and everyone is servant." Yāre yaiche nācāya se taiche kare nṛtya: "Each servant is dancing according to the order of the Supreme." That's all. Nobody is master. So this false conception of becoming master is called māyā, illusion. Nobody is master. Therefore one who disagrees to become servant of God, he is befooled. It is said, "But those who, out of envy..." He is constitutionally servant, but he is envious: "Why shall I become God's servant? I shall become God." You see? Everyone is claiming, "Oh, everyone is God. Why? What is the use of becoming servant of God? I am God." This is enviousness.

So if one refuses to serve God and become envious, "disregard these teachings and do not practice them regularly, are to be considered bereft of all knowledge." Because he is servant, but he is thinking, "I am master. I am not serving anyone." This is māyā, bereft of all knowledge.

Go on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Thirty-three: "Even a man of knowledge acts according to his own nature, for everyone follows his nature. What can repression accomplish?"

Prabhupāda: So at least he is servant of his nature. There are three kinds of material modes of nature. Somebody is in goodness; somebody is in passion; somebody is in ignorance. So in ignorance, somebody, say, he is intoxicated. He is servant of some intoxication. But he is thinking, after being intoxicated, "Oh, I am God. I am master." You see. This is called befooling him. He is befooled. He is servant of intoxication, and he is thinking, "I am God." Just see. Is it not a farce? By meditation he will become God. If you are God, why you are meditating? Therefore they are befooled. The direct process is: take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness—"I am eternal servant of God. Let me take to this business. Finish." Perfect knowledge.

Go on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Thirty-four: "Attraction and repulsion for sense objects are felt by embodied beings, but one should not fall under the control of senses and sense objects, because they are stumbling blocks on the path of self-realization."

Thirty-five: "It is far better to discharge one's own prescribed duties, even though they may be faulty, than another's duties. Destruction in the course of performing one's own duty is better than engaging in another's duty, for to follow another's path is dangerous."

Thirty-six: "Arjuna said: O descendant of Vṛṣṇi, by what is one impelled to sinful acts, even unwillingly, as if engaged by force?"

Prabhupāda: Here Kṛṣṇa says that "Destruction in the course of performing one's own duty is better than engaging in another's duties, for to follow another's path is dangerous." Now, Arjuna was a military man, a kṣatriya. His business was to fight for the good cause. But in the battlefield he thought that, "Why should I engage myself in this killing business? Better retire from it. If I don't get my kingdom, I shall rather beg."

This begging business is for us. Just like we are sannyāsī or a brāhmaṇa; we are allowed to beg. We are not, of course, begging as professional beggar, but we introduce ourself as beggar. The Vedic culture is that a sannyāsī, when he comes to beg in a householder's house, he receives him very respectfully, and whatever he wants, they want to supply. But they do not want anything, but the introduction is that they take this opportunity of sitting in a householder's home and talk about Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is their real business. They are not beggars.

Anyway, this begging business is not for a householder or a military man. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that "Don't try to imitate the business of a sannyāsī or a brāhmaṇa. You are kṣatriya. You..., your duty is to fight, so you should follow your own prescribed duty. Don't try to imitate others." But one can attain perfection by being engaged in his own occupation, provided he does it in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So Kṛṣṇa is asking him to fight, and he is a professional fighter. So if he fights in accordance with the order of Kṛṣṇa, there is his perfection. This is the purport.

Go on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Purport: "A living entity, as part and parcel of the Supreme Personality, is originally spiritual and pure, as well as free from all contaminations of matter. Therefore, by nature the living entity is not subjected to the sins of the material world. But factually, when the living entity is in contact with the material nature, he acts in many sinful ways without hesitation.

As such, Arjuna's question to Kṛṣṇa is very sanguine as to the perverted nature of the living entity. Although the living entity sometimes does not want to act in sin, he is still forced to act. This force is not, however, impelled by the Supersoul living within the living entity, but must be due to other causes, and that is explained in the next verse by the Lord."

Thirty-seven: "The Blessed Lord said: It is lust only, Arjuna, which is born of contact with the material modes of passion and later transformed into wrath, and which is the all-devouring, sinful enemy of this world."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Passion..., if you increase your passion, then when you cannot fulfill your passion, you'll be angry, wrath, one after another. So this is due to our being situated in the modes of passion.

As I have told you, there are three kinds of modes of material nature. One is goodness, one is passion and one is ignorance. So ignorance is the lowest quality, passion is still better than ignorance, and goodness is the highest good quality within this material world. And one has to transcend even goodness. Then he can go to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness platform.

So one should not remain on the platform of passion. He should try to rise on the platform of goodness, and from there he should try to be promoted in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is one method. But if you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness directly, then automatically you transcend the platform of ignorance, passion and goodness.

Go on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Thirty-eight: "As fire is converted by smoke... As fire is covered by smoke, as a mirror is covered by dust or as the embryo is covered by the womb, similarly, the living entity is covered by different degrees of this lust."

Prabhupāda: Lust. Different degrees of lust. Those who are in the modes of goodness, their lust is a different quality. Those who are in passion, their lust is in different quality. Those who are ignorance, their lust is different. It is the question...

Just like there are first-class prisoner, second-class prisoner and third-class prisoner. So after all, they are prisoners, may be first class, second class or third class. That doesn't matter. Similarly, within this material world somebody may be very learned, rich, beautiful, all good qualification, in the modes of goodness. So they... Or somebody in passion and somebody in lower degree, or even animal life. But they are all prisoners within this material world.

One has to transcend this position. One has to transcend even the so-called goodness of the material world. Just like Arjuna was trying to be so-called good man of this material world. He was trying to avoid the injunction of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa wanted him that "You should fight this Kurukṣetra battle," but he wanted to be good man. So that fighting, when he was convinced of Kṛṣṇa's instruction, this Bhagavad-gītā, that means he transcended even the goodness platform of this material world. So Kṛṣṇa is trying to raise him to the...

traiguṇya-viṣayā vedā
nistraiguṇyo bhavārjuna

[Bg. 2.45]

[The Vedas mainly deal with the subject of the three modes of material nature. Rise above these modes, O Arjuna. Be transcendental to all of them. Be free from all dualities and from all anxieties for gain and safety, and be established in the Self.]

This whole material atmosphere is surcharged with three modes of material nature. So one has to transcend the modes of material nature. Just like one should not try to become a first-class prisoner. In the prison house, if one is a third-class prisoner and one is first-class prisoner, the third-class prisoner should not aspire that "Let me remain in this prison house and become a first-class prisoner." That is not good. One should transcend the prison walls, or come out of the prison house. That is his aim.

Go on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Purport: "There are three degrees of covering of the pure living entity, and thereby the pure consciousness of the living entity, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is embarrassed by nonmanifestation. This covering is but lust under different manifestations, like smoke in the fire, dust on the mirror and the womb about the embryo.

"When lust is compared to smoke, it is understood that the fire of the living spark can be a little perceived. In other words, when the living entity exhibits his Kṛṣṇa consciousness slightly, he may be likened to the fire covered by smoke. Although fire is necessary when there is smoke, there is no overt manifestation of fire in the early stage. This stage can be compared with the beginning of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The comparison of the dust of the mirror refers to the cleansing process of the mirror of the mind by so many spiritual methods. The best process is to chant the holy names of the Lord.

"The comparison of the embryo being covered by the womb is an analogy illustrating the most awkward position, for the child in the womb is so helpless that it cannot even move. This stage of living condition can be compared also to the trees. The trees are living entities, but they have been put into that condition of life by such a great exhibition of lust that they are almost devoid of all consciousness."

Prabhupāda: Yes, these trees... We should know that the trees, they are also living entities, but they have been put in such awkward position that they are standing up in a position for thousands of years. They cannot move even. If somebody is cutting, it cannot protest. They have been put into such conditional life. If somebody is coming to do some harm, they cannot go away. So the most abominable conditional life is the trees.

Go on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "The covered mirror is compared to the birds and beasts, and smoke-covered fire is compared to the human being."

Prabhupāda: Yes. The birds and beasts, they can move. They can protect themselves from somebody who is coming to harm. But still, they have no knowledge. The same... A little better than the trees.

Go on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "In the form of a human being, the living entity can perceive a little Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and if he makes further development, the fire of spiritual life can be kindled in the human form.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By careful handling of the smoke in the fire, the fire can be made to blaze."

Prabhupāda: Yes. When the fire is covered by the smoke, if you little fan over it, then immediately there is blazing fire; immediately smoke is gone. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness, in every living entity, especially human being, there is, even in the aborigines, those who are called uncivilized.

They are also offering some respect to the seas, to the thunderbolt, to a big mountain. Something wonderful they offer; they bow down. That means there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So, just like a fire covered with smoke, now, if you fan it, if you just try to eradicate the smoke, the fire will come out.

So we should take advantage. We have got now this consciousness, God consciousness. Therefore in every human society there is some sort of religious propaganda: "Try to understand God." So we should take advantage of this. But instead of taking advantage of this opportunity, we have declared, "God is dead. I am God," "This God," "That God." You see? So we are not fanning. We are, rather, going more and more away from God. This should not be done.

Go on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Therefore the human form of life is a chance for the living entity to escape the entanglement of material existence. In the human form of life one can conquer the enemy, lust, by culture of Kṛṣṇa consciousness under able guidance."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Thirty-nine: "Thus a man's pure consciousness is covered by his eternal enemy in the form of lust, which is never satisfied and which burns like fire."

Forty: "The senses, the mind and the intelligence are the sitting places of this lust, which veils the real knowledge of the living entity and bewilders him."

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is very important. "The senses, the mind and the intelligence are the sitting places of this lust." If somebody is lusty, and if one has to search out where that enemy, lust, is there, so Kṛṣṇa is giving you direct information, "Here is your enemy." Where? Senses, mind, intelligence—there is lust. So if you can understand, "Here is the enemy," and if you try to drive out the enemy, you take precaution.

What is that precaution? You engage your senses in Kṛṣṇa conscious activities. The lust will have no more place to attack your senses or sit on your senses. You engage your mind in Kṛṣṇa, immediately the lust from the mind will go away. Similarly, you apply your intelligence, how to work on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. These are the processes.

The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is like that. Apply your intelligence, apply your mind, apply your senses only for Kṛṣṇa, and there is no more lust. You are free. There is no sitting place. Just like this glass: there is water. So how you can put in ink? Because there is no sitting place.

Similarly, if you place Kṛṣṇa in your mind, so lust will automatically go away. Just like if you place light in this room, the darkness automatically will go away. There is no place for darkness. Kṛṣṇa is light. The sun is light. As soon as there is sun rising, the whole darkness of night automatically disappears. So try to place Kṛṣṇa in your mind, in your sensual activities, in your intelligence. Then there will be no more lust. It will be finished.

Go on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Forty-one: "Therefore, O Arjuna, best of the Bhāratas, in the very beginning, curb the great symbol of sin, lust, by regulating the senses and slay this destroyer of knowledge and self-realization."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Regulating..., how can you regulate the senses? Not by artificial means. The yoga practice, of course, is meant for controlling the senses. But nobody can practice in this age perfectly yoga, neither one can control the senses. But this is practically. Just like our sense, tongue. We want to taste very palatable dishes.

Now, you supply palatable Kṛṣṇa prasādam. You forget going to hotel, immediately. This sort of process is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We don't simply prohibit that "You don't do this," but we supply something which is engaged by the senses and the mind, the intelligence, so that you do not require to be engaged otherwise.

Positive and negative. Simply negative is no good unless there is positive engagement. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is positive engagement. So there is no question of negative. Negative is already there. If you taking nice foodstuff, automatically you give up obnoxious and nonsense foodstuff. But if I say, "Don't take this foodstuff. This is not good," and if I don't supply you nice foodstuff, naturally you are hungry, you will have to take whatever is there.

Just like sometimes, you have seen the dogs? They are eating stool, their own stool. So I was talking this. One of my students told me that in the last war in the concentrated camp, the human being, they also ate their stool out of hunger. You see? There was no food, so they ate their own stool.

So when there is no opportunity of good occupation, one must be satisfied with this nonsense occupation. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice that one who is occupied with this movement, he cannot go any more to so-called lusty and other nonsense occupation.

Go on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Forty-two: "The working senses are superior to dull matter. Mind is higher than the senses. Intelligence is still higher than the mind, and he, the soul, is even higher than the intelligence."

Prabhupāda: So we have to come to the platform of soul. Generally, we are on the dull material platform of this body, and this body means senses. And the center of all the senses is the mind. And the mind is also controlled by intelligence. And when you go above the platform intelligence, then you come to the platform of spiritual soul, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is your position. So one has to try to transcend all these three stages of material platform and then come to the spiritual platform.

Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Forty-three: "Thus knowing oneself to be transcendental to material senses, mind and intelligence, one should control the lower self by the higher self, and thus, by spiritual strength, conquer this insatiable enemy known as lust."

Purport: "This third chapter of the Bhagavad-gītā is conclusively directed to Kṛṣṇa consciousness through knowing oneself as the eternal servitor of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, without considering impersonal voidness as the ultimate goal..., end, ultimate end. In the material existence of life, one is certainly influenced by propensities of lust and desire for dominating the resources of material nature. Such desire for overlording and sense gratification are the greatest enemies of the conditioned soul, but by the..."

Prabhupāda: Generally, those who are under the bodily concept of life, they are struggling day and night. Why? Now, to have overlordship of this material nature. This is material activities. And those who are on the mental platform, they are trying to philosophize, mental speculation. Those who are still intelligent, they are taking to this yoga practice by intelligently trying to controlling the senses. But as soon as you come to the spiritual platform, automatically these things are done, because all your senses, mind and intelligence are occupied by Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Go on. Yes, go on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "One may not give up work and prescribed duties all of a sudden, but by factually developing one's Kṛṣṇa consciousness, one can be situated in a transcendental position, without being influenced by the material senses and the mind, by steady intelligence directed towards one's pure identity. This is the sum total of this chapter. In the immature stage of material existence, philosophical speculation and artificial attempts to control the senses by the so-called practice of yogic postures can never help a man toward spiritual life. He must be trained in Kṛṣṇa consciousness by higher intelligence."

"Thus end the Bhaktivedanta purports to the Third Chapter of the Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā in the matter of karma-yoga, or the acting of one's prescribed duty in Kṛṣṇa consciousness."

Prabhupāda: Thank you. [devotees offer obeisances]

[pause] Any question?

[pause] Yes?

Madhudviṣa: Prabhupāda? In your purport of the thirty-eighth verse, you were talking about returning to the position of a tree, how it is put into this position due to its previous engagement.., exhibition of lust.

Prabhupāda: Page, page.

Madhudviṣa: Pardon? On page 106.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just read it. Where?

Madhudviṣa: "The comparison of the embryo being covered by the womb is an allegory illustrating the most awkward position of the child in the womb, who is so helpless that it cannot even move. This stage of living condition can be compared also to the trees. The trees are living entities, but they have been put into that condition of life by such a great exhibition of lust that they are almost devoid of all consciousness."

Prabhupāda: Yes. So what is your question?

Madhudviṣa: People that are engaged in lusty acts during their life... I thought that Kṛṣṇa is merciful, and He will provide them with the body which will have as much lust as they want. I can't see how a person could devolve into that body of a tree due to engaging himself in lusty activities during his lifetime.

Prabhupāda: I don't follow. What is...

Madhudviṣa: In the Bhagavad-gītā has stated that whatever one's consciousness is during his lifetime will be at the time of his death, and that will determine his next body. Now, one who is very lusty, living very lustily during his lifetime, his mind will be on his body.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So there are many kind, varieties of life. Just like somebody is very lusty, and he wants sex enjoyment so many times a day. So there are many animals, many birds: they are given the opportunity like that. Just like the pigeons, the sparrows. Or there are many birds—the swans, the ducks—they have got every day twenty times, sex intercourse. So this facility is given to them. You see?

Similarly, somebody wants to eat meats and blood: he is given the chance to become a tiger. So Kṛṣṇa is giving chance everyone. And one who is very dull, cannot understand, simply, "Oh, the sense gratification," they are made the dullest possible, like trees, stand up for thousands of years.

So all these different varieties of life, 8,400,000's, we have got different varieties. Just you can calculate. There are three qualities. Three into three equal to nine... Three multiplied by three becomes nine, and nine multiplied by nine becomes eighty-one. Automatically it becomes more than, er, so many, eight million.

So God's kingdom, His calculation, His fine judgment is very difficult to understand. But practically we see there are so many varieties of life. Why? They have been given chance: "All right, you want this sort of life? Here it is. Take it. Accept it." So they are transmigrating from one life to another, one life to another, one life to another.

Out of many such millions of living entities, one who comes under Kṛṣṇa consciousness by the grace of Kṛṣṇa and His devotee, spiritual master, his life is successful. He gets the clue to get out of this entanglement. Otherwise he is to travel within these 8,400,000's of species of life.

So Kṛṣṇa is giving chance, whatever you want, but He is talking also the ultimate goal of your life. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]:

[Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear.]

"You give up this searching out of your happiness in your own way by transmigrating from one kind of life to another, one position to another. You just take shelter of Me, and I take charge of you." This is the whole proposition of Bhagavad-gītā.

This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. One has to give up searching out of happiness according to his own plan, but he has to submit himself to Kṛṣṇa, who will take charge, and He will give you all happiness that you desire. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Jaya Gopāla: Are the people in this age lusty only in the modes of ignorance, or are they lusty in all three modes?

Prabhupāda: Anyone who is in the material world, he is lusty. Maybe difference of degree—that doesn't matter—but he is lusty. Kāma eṣa krodha eṣa rajo-guṇa-samudbhavaḥ [Bg. 3.37].

[The Blessed Lord said: It is lust only, Arjuna, which is born of contact with the material modes of passion and later transformed into wrath, and which is the all-devouring, sinful enemy of this world.]

Everyone is trying to lord it over the material nature. That is lust.

Now, the ant is trying to lord it over the material nature in his own way, and the big politician, he is trying to lord it over the material nature in a different way. Everyone is trying. So that lording it over the material nature is the sign of lust. So you can take it for granted that anyone who is within this material world, he has got that contamination of lust, maybe manifested in different degrees.

But who has come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he has no more lust, because he wants to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. He doesn't want to satisfy his senses. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. His aim of life is how Kṛṣṇa will be pleased. That's all. And lust means "How my senses will be satisfied." That is the difference.

The process of satisfying is going on. In our conditioned life we are trying to satisfy our senses, and in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness life we are satisfying to please Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference. So my work is not stopped, but the goal of life is changed. That is liberation.

We don't say that you kill your desire. No. You purify your desire to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Now your desire is to satisfy your senses. That's all. This has to be purified, that you shall desire, but you shall desire to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Then your perfection is there.

In one way it is very simple and easy, because I know how to satisfy my senses. I am doing it life after life. The same endeavor should be engaged for satisfying Kṛṣṇa. That's all. The process has not to be learned by me. I know it. Simply account has to be changed. That's all. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is very simple and easy. Immediately you come to the spiritual platform, or transcendental platform.

That is explained in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta [Ādi 4.172]:

[Therefore lust and love are quite different. Lust is like dense darkness, but love is like the bright sun.]

Lust and love, what is the difference between lust and love. In the material world there is no love, because everyone is directed by lust. The so-called love... A young boy is trying to love a young girl, or a young girl is trying to love a young..., but the background is lust. There is no love. It is simply a show of love.

Therefore, after satisfying lust, there is divorce, there is separation. So in the material world there is no possibility of love. It is all lust. Love is only possible when you love God. There is no lust. There is no question of sense gratification. Simply for love: "Kṛṣṇa is my lover. Kṛṣṇa is my master. Kṛṣṇa is my friend."

Just like Arjuna. Arjuna is loving Kṛṣṇa as friend. So he is so great lover that in the beginning he hesitated to fight: "How shall I kill my kinsmen?" But when he understood, "Kṛṣṇa, my friend, desires. Oh, never mind," so there was no lust; simply love of Kṛṣṇa. So lust and love, that means the same thing is there. Simply one has to change the account. That's all. Lusty people, they are working on account of sense gratification, and lover of Kṛṣṇa is working for Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction.

The activity may appear superficially the same. Just like these boys in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, people may say, "What they are doing? They are also eating, they are also cooking, and offering Kṛṣṇa, and they say it is Kṛṣṇa conscious. What is the difference between this foodstuff and the hotel foodstuff?" In this way they may think.

"Oh, they are also typewriting, they are also using Dictaphone and this tape recorder and all this material..." But they do not know that everything is being used for Kṛṣṇa; therefore there is far different. There is no lust. So you can utilize everything if it is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not for satisfaction of your lust. Then your life is sublime.

We do not reject anything, but we accept anything. The only difference is that we do not accept anything for our sense gratification. We do not accept this tape recorder for sense gratification, singing or dancing. We accept this tape recorder to record Kṛṣṇa's glories, to record Kṛṣṇa's topics. So this is the difference only.

nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe
yuktaṁ vairāgyam ucyate


[Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu 1.2.255].

[When one is not attached to anything but at the same time accepts everything in relation to Kṛṣṇa, one is rightly situated above possessiveness. On the other hand, one who rejects everything without knowledge of its relationship to Kṛṣṇa is not as complete in his renunciation.]

Dovetail everything in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and it is perfect. And dovetail anything with your lust or sense gratification? Apparently, it may be very good, nice thing, but it is nonsense; it is lust.

So somebody is using religion for satisfaction of his senses, somebody is using Bhagavad-gītā for satisfaction of his senses. We do not wish to discuss all this in detail, but actually there is no training how to use things in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is being now introduced in this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, how to make everything perfect, dovetail in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

So, any other question? [pause]

Makhanlāl: In the living entities such as the trees, which are very much limited in consciousness and ability to move also, are these... It mentions in the purports that they have been very lusty. This tends to show that they have been once before in human form and then have really fallen. But is it also the case that there are, amongst the forms, many souls that are on the process of evolution and going upward in the same way?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like you are stepping some staircases. You go to the second floor or third floor, but some way or other, you fall down again. So you have to cross again the steps. Do you follow? That does not mean because you crossed all the steps and went to the third floor... Now you have fallen down. You have to cross again.

So there is a regular evolutionary process from trees to worms, reptiles, from reptiles to birds, from birds to beasts, varieties of beasts, and from beast to human life. These are the stepping stone, evolutionary process. But even if you are human being, if you fall down to the category of the trees, then you have to again go up step by step: you have to come to the form of the worms and reptiles, then birds, then beasts.

Therefore we should not miss this chance. This is intelligence. If I miss this chance, then I do not know where I am falling down again. So there is no teaching; there is no knowledge in the whole world. They are driven out just like animals. This educational institution, universities—there is no department of knowledge how the living entities are working, how they are being transmigrated, they are falling down, how they are... No. A very risky civilization. So people should try to understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy very seriously if they at all want their own good.

Bhakti-jana: What's the next evolutionary step for these flowers that we offer to Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: From trees, the worms. Do you see from the flower there are some butterflies? You have seen? The flowers generates some worms, and they transform into butterfly. You have seen it. Then gradually they'll become birds from butterfly. And from birds, different birds, then they'll become beast, four-legged. And then the four legs turn into two hands and just like gorilla, monkey.

Then he will come to this beautiful form. And if you miss this opportunity, again you want to become butterfly, go on. Who will check you? Become butterfly. Nature will not excuse you. As soon as you want to become butterfly, "Yes, come on. Here is..." [laughter]

They do not know. They are thinking, "This is a flickering lamp. Oh, let us enjoy." Very risky civilization.

jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi
sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati

[Padma Purāṇa]

[There are 900,000 species living in the water. There are 2,000,000 nonmoving living entities [sthāvara] such as trees and plants. There are 1,100,000 species of insects and reptiles, and 1,000,000 species of birds. As far as quadrupeds are concerned, there are 3,000,000 varieties, and there are 400,000 human species.]

These are all stated in the Purāṇas. These books were meant for human society. They are not reading. They are reading all rascal novels and literatures and sex life, frauds, and this and that, books. How they are wasting their time! The other day Govinda dāsī was showing me one literature, Hawaii picture. The boys and girls, they are enjoying this..., what is called?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Surfing.

Prabhupāda: Surface. Spending money. You see? But there is no instruction how they are wasting their time, this human form of life, simply by jumping in the water. [laughter] And they are thinking, "I am enjoying, butterfly." You see? They do not know the value of this life.

And the system of civilization who is encouraging them to do this without any good information, what kind of condemned civilization is that? Pulling by force to the darkest region of hell. They do not know, although the hellish condition of life is in the front. There are so many varieties of life. They do not question, "Wherefrom these lives come?"

The Padma Purāṇa says, jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati, kṛmayor rudra-saṅkhyakāḥ. There are nava-lakṣāṇi, 900,000 species of life within water. We begin our aquatic life. Because the whole world was, in the beginning, full of water, so we had to live within the water. So there are 900,000 species of life within the water.

Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. And when the water dries up, as soon as the land comes out, the trees and plants begin to grow, 2,000,000 types of trees and plants. In this way there are 8,400,000 species of life. What do they know, the botanist and the biologist?

So it is very serious. People should take it very seriously, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is not a humbug thing. It is based on authorized scriptures, Vedic literatures. Unfortunately, we have no customer for this knowledge. [break]

Bhakti-jana: Doesn't Kṛṣṇa take any special mercy of flowers that are offered to Him?

Prabhupāda: Yes. When it is offered to Kṛṣṇa. Yes. Therefore we offer flowers to Kṛṣṇa. We are doing service to the flowers.

Bhakti-jana: Where will they take their next birth? They don't become butterflies.

Prabhupāda: That may be understood later on. First of all, because it has come to Kṛṣṇa, there is something good. The tree which has produced this flower, he is benefited, because he is offering his energy. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means offering one's energy to Kṛṣṇa. The energy is derived from Kṛṣṇa; it should be offered to Kṛṣṇa. Just like what is this water?

Water is taken from the ocean, derived from the ocean. It goes to the sky, again turns into water, falls down, and in river goes down again to the ocean. Similarly, we have derived our energy from Kṛṣṇa. Now again if we glide down towards Kṛṣṇa, that is perfection. We haven't got separate energy.

This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness: to apply the whole energy towards Kṛṣṇa. That's all. That energy may be utilized in different ways—but to Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. [end]