Prabhupāda: I am imperfect. That's all right. But I know what is perfection.

Guest (1): I cannot see that. I mean... [devotees laugh]

Prabhupāda: No. Don't laugh. Suppose you are here. You have to go to London. If you have purchased the ticket for London and if you are sure that you have got an aeroplane, so even you have not gone to reach London, but you are sure that you are going to London.

Guest (1): Yes. I can be sure. I understand that, that you are sure. I have no doubt about that. But how can your security...

Prabhupāda: No, no, if I have understood that my destination is London—I am going to London—then if I feel secure, that is my happiness.

Guest (1): So you are completely happy.

Prabhupāda: Yes, because I know, "If I go to London, I will be happy." So I am going there, therefore I am happy.

Guest (1): But you're not in London yet.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. I have already told you: that very purchase of ticket and the understanding that you are surely going to London, that is happiness.

Guest (1): But then there is no searching. You do not...

Prabhupāda: So what is that? If my destination is London, why there is searching? There is no use of searching.

Guest (1): Well, then why a conference with men of other religions?

Prabhupāda: No, that conference is to consult together that London is the destination.

Guest (1): But then you know of a destination.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): But the idea that you have behind your mind is to tell other people where the destination is, not to search for it with them.

Prabhupāda: No, I don't say search. I have already searched out.

Guest (1): Yes. So then I feel myself that this is not a conference.

Prabhupāda: Why not conference? If I have got some good news to tell you, is it not conference?

Guest (2): Swāmījī, I think the objective will be... As far as you are concerned, it will be London. As far as I am concerned, it may be Paris or Hawaii.

Prabhupāda: No, then that is not... No, that is not. Hawaii... Then we have to consider where real happiness, whether it is in Hawaii or in Paris or in...

Guest (2): True. But then you are not going to a country that it is not London. And if I say I am not going to country that is not...

Prabhupāda: That is going on. That is going on. There are innumerable planets, and in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, yānti deva-vratā devān pitṝn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ [Bg. 9.25].

[Those who worship the demigods will take birth among the demigods; those who worship ghosts and spirits will take birth among such beings; those who worship ancestors go to the ancestors; and those who worship Me will live with Me.]

Now, if you think that London is not good for you, Paris is good for you, it is good for you.

Guest (3): Well, then the whole conference becomes useless.

Prabhupāda: No. If you don't agree that which is the..., or do not understand what is the highest goal, then conference is useless. If you keep yourself to the understanding where you are, then there is no need of conference.

Guest (2): That is exactly the same thing...

Prabhupāda: No, not exactly the same thing. That is the conference—I want to convince you that London is the real place of happiness.

Guest (2): But maybe I think that I know...

Prabhupāda: You may think, but you'll have to be convinced that your thinking is wrong.

Guest (2): Or maybe I can convince you that your thinking is wrong.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Therefore conference required. [laughter] Therefore conference required.

Guest (3): Swāmījī, the time is running out; however, and I would like to thank you very much for the..., your coming in our center here.

Prabhupāda: Now you are convinced that conference is required. You have to convince me; I'll have to convince you.

Guest (3): And I think that it is through those confrontations and through those listenings to each other... [break] [indistinct] man.

Guest (1): If you go to London, I want to go to India, and then we shall be separated. So we must all go both to London and India.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say that first of all we have to decide where to go. If anyone is satisfied that "I am satisfied with going to London or going to Paris..."

Guest (1): But that is the question. Where should we go? If you believe that you must go to London, I believe very strongly I must go to India, and I am convinced that to me India is London...

Prabhupāda: No. As you are convinced that going to India is good for you, similarly, you may change your conviction also, that going to London is also nice.

Guest (1): Yes. But so may you also change your conviction.

Prabhupāda: I may... Yes, if you can convince me. Therefore conference...

Guest (1): If you believe that you cannot be convinced...

Prabhupāda: No. I believe you can convince me. If we are reasonable...

Guest (1): But then you are searching.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No. My searching is complete. I want...

Guest (1): But then I cannot convince you of anything.

Prabhupāda: No. Why not? You have got reason; I have got reason. You have to show me that these are favorable condition in Paris.

Guest (1): But how can I convince you? Because you are saying that you cannot...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. "Convince" means you have to convince me with your reasoning power or presentation. That is not very difficult thing. Two lawyers are fighting in the court. They are convincing. Now the judgment is there. So that fighting means for convincing, not only in law court, in everywhere—in assembly, in Parliament, in Senate house. That is a regular thing. Now the majority is accepting. Now this shall be... What is that?

Devotee: [indistinct]

Prabhupāda: No, no. Show it now. [Hindi] [end]