Prabhupāda: [Hindi conversation]

[sings maṅgalacaraṇa prayers]

vande 'haṁ śrī-guroḥ śrī-yuta-pada-kamalaṁ śrī-gurūn vaiṣṇavāṁś ca
śrī-rūpaṁ sāgrajātaṁ saha-gaṇa-raghunāthānvitaṁ taṁ sa-jīvam
sādvaitaṁ sāvadhūtaṁ parijana-sahitaṁ kṛṣṇa-caitanya-devaṁ
śrī-rādhā-kṛṣṇa-pādān saha-gaṇa-lalitā-śrī-viśākhānvitāṁś ca

["I offer my respectful obeisances unto the lotus feet of my spiritual master and of all the other preceptors on the path of devotional service. I offer my respectful obeisances unto all the Vaiṣṇavas and unto the six Gosvāmīs, including Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī, Śrīla Sanātana Gosvāmī, Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī, Jīva Gosvāmī and their associates. I offer my respectful obeisances unto Śrī Advaita Ācārya Prabhu, Śrī Nityānanda Prabhu, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and all His devotees, headed by Śrīvāsa Ṭhākura. I then offer my respectful obeisances unto the lotus feet of Lord Kṛṣṇa, Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī and all the gopīs, headed by Lalitā and Viśākhā."]

he kṛṣṇa karuṇā-sindho dīna-bandho jagat-pate
gopeśa gopikā-kānta rādhā-kānta namo 'stu te

["O my dear Kṛṣṇa, ocean of mercy, You are the friend of the distressed and the source of creation. You are the master of the cowherd men and the lover of the gopīs, especially Rādhārāṇī. I offer my respectful obeisances unto You."]

tapta-kāñcana-gaurāṅgi rādhe vṛndāvaneśvari
vṛṣabhānu-sute devi praṇamāmi hari-priye

["I offer my respects to Rādhārāṇī, whose bodily complexion is like molten gold and who is the Queen of Vṛndāvana. You are the daughter of King Vṛṣabhānu, and You are very dear to Lord Kṛṣṇa."]

he kṛṣṇa karuṇā-sindho dīna-bandho jagat-pate
gopeśa gopikā-kānta rādhā-kānta namo 'stu te

["O my dear Kṛṣṇa, ocean of mercy, You are the friend of the distressed and the source of creation. You are the master of the cowherd men and the lover of the gopīs, especially Rādhārāṇī. I offer my respectful obeisances unto You."]

tapta-kāñcana-gaurāṅgi rādhe vṛndāvaneśvari
vṛṣabhānu-sute devi praṇamāmi hari-priye

["I offer my respects to Rādhārāṇī, whose bodily complexion is like molten gold and who is the Queen of Vṛndāvana. You are the daughter of King Vṛṣabhānu, and You are very dear to Lord Kṛṣṇa."]

vāñchā-kalpatarubhyaś ca kṛpā-sindhubhya eva ca
patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo vaiṣṇavebhyo namo namaḥ

["I offer my respectful obeisances unto all the Vaiṣṇava devotees of the Lord. They can fulfill the desires of everyone, just like desire trees, and they are full of compassion for the fallen souls."]

śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu nityānanda
śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda

["I offer my obeisances to Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, Prabhu Nityānanda, Śrī Advaita, Gadādhara, Śrīvāsa and all others in the line of devotion."]

hare kṛṣṇa hare kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa hare hare
hare rāma hare rāma rāma rāma hare hare

["My dear Lord, and the spiritual energy of the Lord, kindly engage me in Your service. I am now embarrassed with this material service. Please engage me in Your service."]

[aside:] That's all right.

na niṣkṛtair uditair brahma-vādibhis
tathā viśuddhyaty aghavān vratādibhiḥ
yathā harer nāma-padair udāhṛtais
tad uttamaśloka-guṇopalambhakam

[SB 6.2.11]

Na niṣkṛtair uditair brahma-vādibhiḥ. There are twenty kinds of religious scripture, out of which, Manu is considered to be the greatest. So they have prescribed many methods for getting oneself released from the reaction of sinful activities.

Every one of us, anyone who is engaged in karma... Karma means pāpa, sinful activities. And karma means one who is working for his own benefit. He is karmī. The whole world is working so hard not for others' benefit but his personal benefit. That is called karma. Try to understand what is karma. Karma means anyone who is working very hard day and night for his own benefit. That is called karma. And whenever you perform karma for your personal interest there must be some sinful activity. Therefore every karmī is a sinful man. It is clear understanding. No karmī can be without being sinful. Every karmī is. Therefore how to work?

Just like government gives you license, say for... One is... Every businessman is given some license. The municipality gives license. The sales tax department gives license, certificate. There are so many licenses a businessman has to follow—income tax licenses. But there are rules and regulations, because all these departments know it very well that any businessman or karmī, he is sure to commit sinful activities. Therefore there are so many regulations just to stop him as far as possible from sinful activities.

Similarly, there are twenty kinds of viṁśati-prakāśa-dharma-śāstra. How one can live faithfully, religiously, the directions are there in twenty kinds of scriptures made by Parāśara, Manu, and many other sages. There are different types. So therefore it is said here that na niṣkṛtair uditair brahma-vādibhiḥ. Brahma-vādibhiḥ. Brahma-vādī means those who are trying to lead persons to realize Brahman.

The whole direction of the Vedic injunction is to understand that "I am not this material body; I am spirit soul." And in order to understand this factual position, there are so many directions in the dharma-śāstra, or religious scriptures. And you'll find here the Yamadūta or Yamarāja will speak, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19].

Really, originally, the, I mean to say, regulator of religious principles is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is sometimes addressed as dharma-setu. Setu means bridge. We have to cross over. The whole plan is that we have to cross over the ocean of nescience in which we are now fallen. The material existence means it is ocean of ignorance and nescience, and one has to cross over it. Then he gets his real life.

This is not real life. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. We are... Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. People are so foolish, they do not take it very seriously, because they do not know that they are eternal. That is another ignorance. Bhagavad-gītā begins from this knowledge that living soul is eternal, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre. But they are in ignorance. They take it as a matter of fact that "This life, this body, is all in all, and after death there is no more any body, so who cares for sinful activities?" That is another ignorance. And in order to give them direction there are so many religious scriptures in human society.

Therefore it is said, dharmeṇa hīnāḥ paśubhiḥ samānāḥ [Hitopadeśa]: if one is not following the principles of religious scriptures... It doesn't matter whether it is Hindu religion or Christian religion or Muslim religion. It doesn't matter. But human civilization, a civilized human being must follow some religious principles. That is the aim of human life. And anyone who does not follow any religious scripture, he is simply animal. That is the position of the present world. We may claim to be Hindu or Muslim or Christian, but nobody cares for religion. They are simply karmīs. Therefore they are all sinful.

Na niṣkṛtair uditair brahma-vādibhiḥ [SB 6.2.11]. Now here the Viṣṇudūta says that "The direction given in the religious principles, to get out of reaction of the sinful activities, they are not sufficient." Just like in Christian religion there is the direction that if anyone is sinful he should go to a priest and confess that "I have committed these things." And if the priest or the father who is supposed to be representative of God or Christ, if he excuses for his confession, then his sinful activities become null and void.

Here it is said, na niṣkṛtair uditair brahma-vādibhis tathā viśuddhyaty aghavān. Just try to understand that this direction cannot purify the sinful man so nicely, because the same man who has confessed that "I have committed these sins," he again comes out of the church and again commits the same sin. Therefore he is not purified. He is not purified. Here it is said, na viśuddhyaty aghavān vratādibhiḥ. It is not only in Christian religion; in every religion there are some prescribed method that... Accepting as a matter of fact that every man is sinful, therefore in religious scriptures there are certain methods to purify them.

But here the Viṣṇudūta says that these prescribed methods, although they are authorized and fact, but they cannot purify the heart of the follower of that religion. And you can see that as our Hindu-Muslim religion, even they perform the ritualistic ceremonies, they do not cease from committing the sins. Just like a rascal patient: He goes to the physician. The physician gives some medicine and gives some direction that "You take this medicine. Do not do this. You do not eat so many things. You eat like this." But he takes the medicine. For the time being he follows, and again he commits the same mistake and again he goes to the physician, and "Doctor, please give me medicine." This is going on.

So this kind of treatment is not accepted by the Viṣṇudūta. Therefore it is said, tathā viśuddhyaty,

na tathā viśuddhyaty aghavān vratādibhiḥ
yathā harer nāma-padair udāhṛtais
tad uttamaśloka-guṇopalambhakam

[SB 6.2.11]

So this is the superexcellence of chanting the holy name of Kṛṣṇa, or God. Here it is said that "Such description or prescription for performing ritualistic ceremony, they are not sufficient to purify a man. But if one chants the holy name of God, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra," yathā harer nāma-padair udāhṛtaiḥ, padaiḥ, "once, once only, Kṛṣṇa, Rāma, Nārāyaṇa..." So harer nāma, not other name, only harer nāma. Yathā harer nāma-padair udāhṛtaiḥ. "Simply once chanting." Uttamaśloka-guṇopalambhakam. The purification of chanting harer nāma [Cc. Ādi 17.21] means as soon as you chant the holy name of Kṛṣṇa, immediately you will see the form of Kṛṣṇa, you will realize the qualities of Kṛṣṇa, you will immediately remember the pastimes of Kṛṣṇa. That is pure chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra.

That is the commented by Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī, that a pure devotee who chants Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, immediately all these—nāma, rūpa, guṇa, līlā, parikara, vasiṣṭha... Simply by chanting name you will feel the form of Kṛṣṇa: "Here is Kṛṣṇa." Nāma, rūpa, guṇa: "Here are the qualities. Oh, Kṛṣṇa is so qualified. He is so kind. He is so magnanimous." So many qualities you will remember. Nāma, rūpa, guṇa, līlā: then His pastimes. "Oh, Kṛṣṇa instructed Arjuna. Kṛṣṇa played with His cowherd boys. Kṛṣṇa had very nice talks with the gopīs, with His mother, Yaśodā." These things will be remembered. That is factual perfection of chanting, that Ajāmila...

Ajāmila, in his previous life, although he became fallen in later age, but he was a brahmacārī. He was being trained by his father, and he knew the pastimes, the form, the name of Nārāyaṇa. But by bad association, for the time being he forgot. But as soon as he chanted the name of Nārāyaṇa he remembered all these. Therefore he was saved. Try to understand this.

One should know the offenseless chanting means remembering the form. Therefore Māyāvādīs, those who are impersonalists, they cannot think of the form of the Lord, neither of the pastimes. They do not believe in the pastimes of the Lord. They think these pastimes means it is māyā. Kṛṣṇa's transcendental pastimes, they think it is māyā. Kṛṣṇa's form, it is māyā, because they are impersonalists. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that janma karma me divyam: the rascals, they cannot understand what are the activities, pastimes of Kṛṣṇa. They think it is māyā. But they are divyam, transcendental, not of this material nature.

Kṛṣṇa-līlā is not of material nature. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. Anyone who knows factually, in truth, he only is immediately liberated. Just try to tally. Here it is said that Nārāyaṇa, Nārāyaṇa, simply by chanting this holy name, if immediately you remember what is the nature of the form of Kṛṣṇa, what is the nature of His pastimes, what is the nature of entourage, then you immediately become liberated. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā.

janma karma me divyaṁ
yo jānāti tattvataḥ
tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma
naiti mām eti kaunteya

[Bg. 4.9]

Therefore chanting is so easy and sublime. One who is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, if he is offenseless he'll always remember Kṛṣṇa's form, Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, Kṛṣṇa's qualities, Kṛṣṇa's entourage. The whole thing will be remembered, and that will make him liberated. Offenseless chanting means liberated. We should therefore [be] very much careful not to commit offenses. Then we remain always... So long you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, you'll remain liberated.

And actually, ayi mukta-kalir upaśyamāna. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī has said that the chanting is possible only by the liberated soul. Ayi mukta-kalir upaśyamāna. When he is addressing the holy name he says, mukta-kalir upasya: "Those who are liberated, they can chant offenseless, or pure, holy name of the Lord." Ayi mukta-kalir upaśyamāna. And Parīkṣit Mahārāja also has stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam... What is that verse? I immediately forget. Bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt. What is that śloka? Catur-māsa, can you remember? Bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt ka uttamaśloka-guṇānuvādāt, virajyeta pumān vinā paśughnāt [SB 10.1.4].

Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānāt. Yes, I remember now. Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānāt, that "The holy name of Kṛṣṇa can be chanted by persons who are nivṛtta-tarṣaiḥ." Nivṛtta means those who are completely ceased from material desire. He can chant. Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānāt. The holy name of God, Kṛṣṇa, can be chanted by persons who are completely liberated from all kinds of material desire. That is pure stage of devotional service.

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-
śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā

[Brs. 1.1.11]

One who has become completely freed from all kinds of material desires, jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Jñāna-karmādy... Jñāna, cultivation of knowledge, and cultivation of pious activities, that is also on the material field. The pious... To become very pious man does not mean that he is a liberated man. He is good man, on the platform of the quality of goodness, but he is not a liberated man. Try to understand.

A good man is not a liberated man. Good man is also conditioned soul. He is bound up by good condition. Just like to become a brāhmaṇa, that does not mean that... He has acquired the good qualities, but that does not mean that he is a devotee. You will find in this prayer. You will find many good men, but you will find rarely a pure devotee. So good man is not a devotee. Try to distinguish. Good man is good for this material existence, but devotee is different from good man.

A devotee... Just like Arjuna. Arjuna is killing, engaged in killing. People may think that "Oh, Arjuna is not very good man. He is killing his grandfather, he is killing his, what is called, nephews, and devastating the whole family. Oh, he is not a good man." Sometimes comment..., people comment like that. But Kṛṣṇa says, bhakto 'si priyo 'si me [Bg. 4.3]: "You are My very dear friend." Just try to understand. In the estimation of the material world he is a very good man, er, he is not a good man, because he is killing his own kinsmen. But in the estimation of Kṛṣṇa, he is dear friend and devotee.

So that is the difference between a devotee and good man of this world. A devotee is naturally very good man, but when he acts just like a bad man on behalf of Kṛṣṇa, he does not fall down. He still remains a pure devotee.

So here it is said that yad uttamaśloka-guṇopalambhaka. We have to... Just like there are some sahajiyas. They think that "Kṛṣṇa's rasa-līlā is very nice, but Kṛṣṇa's fighting with the demons and killing of the demons, that is not very nice." But they do not know the Absolute Truth, that Kṛṣṇa is as good in any circumstances, either He is enjoying the company of the gopīs or He is killing the demons. That is the Absolute Truth.

So these things should be understood. So any kind of līlā, yad uttamaśloka-guṇānu, līlā, any kind of Kṛṣṇa's activities, if you remember by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, then you are liberated. Immediately you are liberated, from the authoritative description of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Na niṣkṛtair uditair brahma-vādibhiḥ. Brahma-vādibhiḥ, those who are very much anxious to realize Brahman, they have prescribed so many methods, ritualistic methods, but they are not sufficient, because such things cannot elevate a person to the standard of a pure devotee. He may...

Just like this arrangement, this Kumbha-līlā arrangement, is a prescription by the Brahmavādīs. There is a prescription that one should go during this time, Māgh-melā, and live in the confluence, on the bank of the confluence of Gaṅga and Yamunā, and at least three days he must live. Then he becomes eligible to enter into the heavenly kingdom. These people who have come here, their ambition is to enter into the heavenly kingdom.

But a devotee does not care for heavenly kingdom. A devotee cares a very fig in any planet within this material world. As Kṛṣṇa says, ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokān punar āvartino arjuna. Means they know what is the benefit of entering into heavenly kingdom. There is no benefit. Suppose I may get thousands of years' age and I enjoy very high standard of life, woman, money, wine. Just think. But what is the benefit? There is no benefit.

I was very glad to read one article sent by Satsvarūpa in Boston. He has said, "What is this society, family? It is all hellish. We do not wish to live without Kṛṣṇa." Very nice statement. That is real realization. We do not like to live without Kṛṣṇa. So anyone who has realized it that "Any amount of material happiness is to be kicked out. We don't care for it. We simply care for Kṛṣṇa, how Kṛṣṇa will be happy," that is pure devotee. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Ānukūlyena means favorably. We should simply try to please Kṛṣṇa favorably, not unfavorably.

Just like Kamsa. Kamsa was also Kṛṣṇa conscious, always thinking of Kṛṣṇa, but that was unfavorably. His business was how to kill Kṛṣṇa. He was thinking of Kṛṣṇa, but his business was he was thinking, "How to kill Kṛṣṇa?" That is prātikūla. Prātikūla is not bhakti. When you think of Kṛṣṇa against His desire, against the principle of satisfying Him, that is not bhakti, although that is also Kṛṣṇa consciousness. An enemy of Kṛṣṇa, he is also thinking of Kṛṣṇa. That does not mean that he is Kṛṣṇa conscious. He is Kṛṣṇa conscious unfavorably. Therefore it is not bhakti. You have to act favorably.

So Arjuna became a devotee because he acted favorably for satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa. It was not favorable to the material life, but it was favorable to Kṛṣṇa. That should be your business, how Kṛṣṇa should be satisfied. And therefore naturally it is concluded that "How I can satisfy Kṛṣṇa?" You have to satisfy His representative.

Therefore we have sung just now, yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. If you satisfy His representative, then He is satisfied. Just like in office the proprietor has got a head of a department. If you satisfy that head of the department, the proprietor is satisfied. The report goes to the proprietor that "This man, this clerk, is working very nice," so his promotion, increment of payment, is already there.

So a pure devotee's business is how to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as he chants the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, immediately he remembers the whole plan, how to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Therefore he's a liberated person.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Rāmānanda: [indistinct] ...wants to satisfy... [indistinct] ...satisfy the proprietor... [indistinct].

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmānanda: If one satisfies the pure devotee, he'll be satisfying Lord Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmānanda: Yet he was saying that the demigods are also taking part of...

Prabhupāda: The demigods are not pure devotees. They are devotees. Just like Brahmā is the best of the demigods, but he has a material desire that "I shall be the controller of the universe." Therefore he is not a pure devotee. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has said, kīṭa janma hau, jathā tuā dāsa, bahir-mukha brahma-janme, nāhi mora āśa [Mānasa Deha Geha 5]. Is not that?

So a pure devotee does not try to become a Brahmā also, what to speak of other demigods, because anyone within this material world, he has got some material desire. Anyone. Therefore he is not liberated. He is conditioned. Only the pure devotee, who is trying to satisfy Kṛṣṇa by all his activities, he is liberated.

What do you think, Rāmānanda? Eh? Is it clear or not?

Rāmānanda: It's clear.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. Thank you. Yamunā devī?

Yamunā: I surrender to your lotus feet, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: All right. So anyone, if you have got doubt you can clear it. Now you can try to understand how powerful is this pure chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Offenseless chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra means you remain liberated always.

[pause] Offensive chanting...

Once chanting is sufficient. But because we are not offenseless, therefore we have to make a regulated program that we must chant Hare Kṛṣṇa so many times. Otherwise one chanting of Kṛṣṇa is sufficient to make you liberated. One chant, "Kṛṣṇa," "Rāma," once, that's all, sufficient.

Just like this Ajāmila. Once he chanted "Nārāyaṇa." He became immediately liberated because he was offenseless. But because we cannot do that, therefore we have to make a prescription. Just like a child who cannot write very good hand. He is asked that "You write so many pages." By writing, writing, writing, writing, writing, he writes good hand. So we should not neglect. Chanting, chanting, chanting... Another... This is one side. Another side is when you become liberated, the chanting will give you transcendental pleasure so that you cannot cease. You cannot cease chanting. That is another side.

That is liberated stage, just like Rūpa Gosvāmī, Haridāsa Ṭhākura. You cannot imitate Haridāsa Ṭhākura, but you must make a prescribed form that "I must chant so many times." That is for conditioned soul. When you are liberated, then there is no need of giving you direction. You'll feel transcendental pleasure by chanting. You cannot cease.


Devotee (2): [indistinct] ...was not prescribed. So how was it possible to chant the name at the time of death?

Prabhupāda: No, in his childhood... When he was a boy he was doing everything. You have not heard? Yes. So svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt [Bg. 2.40]. Because he practiced sometimes before falling down, so by chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra he immediately remembered that real Nārāyaṇa immediately, His pastimes, His form, everything, and therefore he became liberated. He had practiced. But for the time being his practice was stopped on account of bad association. But as soon as chanted...

That is the advantage of a devotee. If you practice devotional service even for some time and if you fall down, then it will also help sometime. Nārada therefore says, tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ harer bhajann apakvo 'tha patet tato yadi [SB 1.5.17]. He says that a person who takes to devotional service, giving up all his prescribed duties...

Just like Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Now, in course of prosecuting the devotional service, even he falls down there is no loss, because whatever he has done, that remains his credit. Whereas a person who is following the ritualistic principles but does not develop devotional service, what will be benefit? He may get a promotion to the heavenly planet. What is that gain?

The performance of ritualistic ceremonies, according to Vedic injunction, may—just like here they are doing—they may get promotion to the heavenly planet. That much. They are not devotees. They are not eligible for entering into the kingdom of God. Therefore Nārada says, "What is the benefit?" Suppose if one performs a ritualistic ceremony and is elevated to the heavenly planet, Satyaloka, Maharloka, Janaloka, Tapoloka... There are so many higher planets, up to Brahmaloka. But Kṛṣṇa says, ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokān punar āvartino [Bg. 8.16]. He has to come back again.

But once you understand Kṛṣṇa in fact—janma karma me divyam [Bg. 4.9]—once you remember Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, Kṛṣṇa's form, in pure devotion, he immediately becomes liberated. The karma-kāṇḍīya, they cannot understand this. Therefore pure devotion should be freed from the contamination of karma-kāṇḍa and jñāna-kāṇḍa. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, karma-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa, sakali viṣera bandha [Prema-bhakti-candrikā]: "Either you become pious or you become very learned philosopher, they are all poison pots, because by cultivating such things you cannot become liberated from this material condition."

Therefore pure devotion means anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam [Brs. 1.1.11]. Pure devotion means one should be freed from all material desires, even from the desire of being elevated to the heavenly planet or Brahmaloka, Satyaloka—that is karma—or to try to understand, just like the philosophists, they do. By speculation, by philosophical speculation, they try to understand what is God. So they are not pure devotion. They are karma-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa.

And Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura warns that karma-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa, sakali viṣera bandha, amṛta baliyā yebā khāya [Prema-bhakti-candrikā]: "A person, by mistake if he takes to the pots of karma-kāṇḍa and jñāna-kāṇḍa, then the result is: nānā yoni bhraman kare, he wanders in various species of life, maybe sometimes as demigods, sometimes in heaven, sometimes..." But does not mean liberation. Nānā yoni bhraman kare, kadarya bhakṣaṇa kare. And within these different varieties of life he may be sometimes a worm in the stool, a hog. Kadarya bhakṣaṇa kare. At that time he has to eat most abominable things.

Therefore who takes to this principle—tāra janma, adho pāte yāya. If one does not take advantage of this human form of life to be a Kṛṣṇa conscious person, then he simply spoils his life. Tara janma, adho pāte yāya. Even if he is elevated to the heavenly kingdom, what does he gain? He's adho pata, because the next time he may be worm in the stool. Tāra janma, adho pāte yāya. These are facts. [end]