Prabhupāda: So English is all right?
Haṁsadūta: Yes. [laughs]
Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu is quoting from Viṣṇu Purāṇa. As I have told you the other day, there are eighteen purāṇas: sattvika-purāṇa, rājasika-purāṇa, and tamasika-purāṇa. The whole scheme of Vedic culture is to reclaim all fallen conditioned souls to the platform of transcendental realization. That is the scheme. There are different status of human understanding according to the association of the qualities.
The living being is just like a spark of the complete fire. Brahman is the complete fire, and the living entities are just like sparks. The equality with Param Brahman and individual living entities on the qualitative basis. The quality is the same. Brahman, Param Brahman. Jivātmā, Brahman. Spiritual, and Paramātmā, or Parameśvara, He is supreme, complete.
So Viṣṇu Purāṇa is for the persons who are on the platform of sattva-guṇa, those who are associating with the modes of goodness. This is not correct that everyone is on the same platform. Generally, at the present moment, people are in the platform of tamo-guṇa and rajo-guṇa, mixed. So one has to rise to the platform of sattva-guṇa.
And then, after transcending the sattva-guṇa, also when one is situated in śuddha-sattva, or pure sattva-guṇa... In this material world, even sattva-guṇa is sometimes contacted with rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa; therefore it is not completely pure. No guṇa is pure. It is mixed-up always. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.
So one has to transcend these guṇas; then God realization, or understanding of Kṛṣṇa, can be achieved. But the devotional service, vaidhi-bhakti, the process of rendering devotional service to the Lord according to the prescribed regulative principles in the śāstra, helps us to transcend all these qualities. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26].
Who? Māṁ ca vyabhicāriṇi bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate. Anyone who is engaged in pure devotional service to the Lord, he is immediately on the transcendental position, I mean to..., surpassing the three guṇas. Sa guṇān... Guṇān, bāhu-vacanam, plural number. Immediately.
Therefore, we are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If somehow or other one takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he immediately becomes liberated. Immediately becomes liberated. Because Kṛṣṇa says that sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. And that is a practical application we are now experiencing while preaching in the Western world.
The Western world, as you know, ninety-nine percent, they are in the tamo-guṇa and rajo-guṇa. They are very active, working day and night. We are also, here in India. That is rajo-guṇa. And tamo-guṇa, ignorance, and rajo-guṇa, passion. Rajo-guṇa is better than the tamo-guṇa in the sense: in the tamo-guṇa people are lazy, sleeping, lethargetic, but in the rajo-guṇa they are active. But they are active only for sense gratification. So rajas-tamo, both. So we have to make further progress to be situated in sattva-guṇa.
So Viṣṇu..., Viṣṇu Purāṇa, Lord Caitanya quotes from the Viṣṇu Purāṇa,
viṣṇu-śakti parā proktā
kṣetrajñākhyā tathā parā
tṛtīyā śaktir iṣyate
[Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.7.61, Cc. Madhya 6.154]
The Brahman is not niḥśakti, as some philosophers, Māyāvādī philosophers, they say, "The Brahman is inactive." He's not inactive. He is parāsya brāhmaṇa śaktir sarvedam akhilaṁ jagat. Sarvedam akhilaṁ jagat. His energies are acting. The example is: just like fire..., just like the sun. Sun is situated in one place, and the sun's energies are working, heat and light. Heat and light is working. The whole material creation is resting on the heat and light of the sun. That's a fact
Similarly, this sun is only reflection. Just like moon is reflection of the sunlight, similarly, this sun is also reflection of the brahma-jyotir. And what is that brahma-jyotir? Brahmajyoti is the bodily rays, effulgence, effulgent rays of Kṛṣṇa. You have seen, Kṛṣṇa's head is always aura-ed. That rays is, I mean to say, distributing different energies. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. That energies, or multi-energies, are coming out, just like from sunlight so many things are emanating. Yes. So many energies are coming out. All colors, everything, all material existence, is due to the sunlight.
Similarly, the whole creation, whole material and spiritual creation, that is resting on the rays emanating from the bodily effulgence of Kṛṣṇa. That is stated in the Śrīmad-..., Brahma-saṁhitā: yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi.
yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-
koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi vibhūti-bhinnam
tad brahma niṣkalam anantam aśeṣa-bhūtaṁ
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
This is a prayer from Brahmā, that Brahman is the prabhā, or the effulgence, of Kṛṣṇa. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi.
First of all, the brahma-jyotir is coming. And Kṛṣṇa also says, brāhmaṇaḥ ahaṁ pratiṣṭhā. Brahman is not ultimate. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. First realization is Brahman, impersonal Brahman, then Paramātmā, and then Bhagavān. So Bhagavān is the ultimate. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat asti kiñcid dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. So brahma-tattva, impersonal brahma-tattva, is not ultimate. The ultimate is Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the Vedic verdict.
Caitanya Mahāprabhu is therefore quoting from different Vedic literatures to prove that the Absolute Truth is person, ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇa, full with six opulences. As in the Parāśara-sūtra there is aiśvaryasya samāgrasya [Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.5.47]. When Kṛṣṇa was present He exhibited full strength of six kinds of opulences. So the... Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the fact. That is the Vedic version. It is not that some of the Kṛṣṇa's devotees have taken Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme, or He is originally imperson and He takes a form, accepting a material body. These are not right conclusion.
In the Kūrma Purāṇa it is said that there is no distinction between the body of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and soul. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they distinguish that "Kṛṣṇa's soul is different from His body." That is Māyāvāda philosophy. But that is not the fact. There is no such difference. [aside:] What is that sound? Who is making that?
Pradyumna: Cutting. Cutting vegetables.
Prabhupāda: All right. Don't mind. Just like Dr. Radhakrishnan says that... When the verse, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru, mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaḥ [Bg. 18.68], so Dr. Radhakrishnan says that this man-manā means to..., it is meaning the inner soul of Kṛṣṇa. You see? He does not know that there is no difference between Kṛṣṇa and His soul. His soul and body, the same.
So these things are, I mean to say, creating havoc in the matter of understanding Kṛṣṇa. Instead of taking Bhagavad-gītā as it is, persons who have no knowledge practically, or poor fund of knowledge, they are commenting in different way, and people are misled. As sometimes our these Europeans, Americans, they say it frankly that "For many hundreds of years, the Bhagavad-gītā was known in Europe and America, and many svāmīs went there. They gave reference to the Bhagavad-gītā, but there was no..., not a single devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Not a single devotee."
Prior to this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they had not a single devotee of Kṛṣṇa, as you are finding. Now Bhagavad-gītā is being presented as it is, and they are understanding rightly, and they are becoming devotee. Anyone who will read Bhagavad-gītā as it is, without any malcommentation, he'll become devotee of Kṛṣṇa. And when he becomes a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, accepting the principle, "Kṛṣṇa is all in all," vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]. That position we have to attain.
Caitanya Mahāprabhu's preaching is based on that principle. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. That is His... He is Kṛṣṇa also. According to Vedic evidences, Caitanya Mahāprabhu is also Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇa [SB 11.5.32]. He belongs to the category of Kṛṣṇa, but He is playing the part of a devotee of Kṛṣṇa in order to teach us how to love Kṛṣṇa, how to approach Kṛṣṇa. As such, if we accept the process enunciated by Lord Caitanya, then it is very easy to approach Kṛṣṇa.
To approach Kṛṣṇa is not very easy job, because Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye yatatām api siddhānām [Bg. 7.3]. Koṭiṣv api mahā-mune [SB 6.14.5]. That is also stated in the Padma Purāṇa, that muktānām api siddhānām. Those who are muktas... To become mukta, that is also difficult job. Out of many millions of jñānīs, one becomes mukta, really liberated. And out of many millions of muktas, or liberated, kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ, kaścid, not all, somebody may understand what is Kṛṣṇa. So it is so difficult job.
But Kṛṣṇa is so kind that He has appeared as a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, Lord Caitanya, and He is giving you the mercy, causeless mercy, so that you can understand Kṛṣṇa very easily. That is the special gift of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. We should always know that to understand Kṛṣṇa is very difficult, especially for this age, when people are very much fallen. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ [SB 1.1.10].
The people of this age, they are very slow. They..., practically, they have no intention for utilizing this human form of life. Generally, people, especially in the Western countries, they are simply interested like animal—eating, sleeping, mating and defending. That's all. We are also imitating in India. We have also made our business... This is animal business. So therefore mandāḥ, they are not at all interested.
As Kṛṣṇa as a devotee descended on this planet, Lord Caitanya, to canvass for Kṛṣṇa, similarly we, the servants of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, we are canvassing door to door. That is our business. Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī, he has taught us how to canvass door to door for accepting Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. What is that? The process is, dānte nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor nipātya kāku-śataṁ kṛtvā cāhaṁ bravīmi [Caitanya-candrāmṛta 8.90].
Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī, he was a great devotee of Lord Caitanya. He was uncle of Gopāla Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī, who started at Vṛndāvana the Rādhā-ramaṇa temple. Perhaps you know. So this Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī was a gṛhastha, a householder. Later on, after meeting Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he accepted sannyāsa. Then he wrote a book, Caitanya-candrodaya, very nice book. In that, this verse appears. He is canvassing on behalf of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, or on behalf of Kṛṣṇa.
There is no difference between Kṛṣṇa and Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is combination of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. That is the verdict of the Gosvāmīs.
rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir hlādinī-śaktir asmād
ekātmānāv api [bhuvi purā] deha-bhedaṁ gatau tau
caitanyākhyaṁ prakaṭam adhunā tad-dvayaṁ caikyam āptaṁ
rādhā-bhāva-dyuti-suvalitaṁ naumi kṛṣṇa-svarūpam
[Cc. Ādi 1.5]
So Caitanya Mahāprabhu is combination of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. That is the... This śloka is made by Svarūpa Dāmodara Gosvāmī, who was personal secretary of Lord Caitanya.
So Caitanya Mahāprabhu is giving us the easiest process to approach Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is not easily approachable, especially in this age. Because the Bhāgavata says, mandāḥ sumanda-matayo [SB 1.1.10]: they are very slow; they're reluctant. They don't care for the opportunity they have got. This is a great opportunity we have got, this human form of life. Once missed, you do not know what is the loss. We do not know what is going to happen in our next life. But if you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is guaranteed that you get another human form of life. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭo sanjāyate [Bg. 6.41]. Not only human form of life, you get in a very good family. That is assured in the Bhagavad-gītā.
So my Guru Mahārāja used to say that "Don't take the risk of waiting for another life. Finish this business, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, in this life." In this life. Because there is no certainty. So our propaganda is, "Take to this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Don't risk. Take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness." What is that Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. That's all. Always think of Kṛṣṇa. Is it very difficult job?
Prabhupāda: Just see. A girl, she says it is not difficult. She is not saying without any understanding. She has the understanding of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So... And man-manā, always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. If you chant this mantra and hear Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, so there is no expenditure, there is no loss. You can chant this mantra while walking on the street, while passing in train or in bus. What is the loss?
harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma iva kevalam
kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā
[Cc. Ādi 17.21]
People are crying for votes. [loudspeaker heard from outside] [chuckles] So... But they are not inclined to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. You see? Crying, "Give me vote, give me vote, give me vote, give me vote." You see? How wasting their time. What they'll do, getting votes? How long they will remain a minister? But mandāḥ sumanda-matayo [SB 1.1.10]. Their opinion is very bad, sumanda-mati, or they do not take any right conclusion. And Bhagavad-gītā says, tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām, antavat tu phalaṁ teṣām [Bg. 7.23]. These activities, they are temporary, will end within some years, but still, they are so much busy with this business. Therefore this kind of occupation is for the alpa-medhasaḥ, those who have got very little brain substance. Medhaḥ means brain substance.
So these things are there, mandāḥ sumanda-matayo. Manda-bhāgyā, also, very poor. In this age, practically everyone is very poor, mostly the population. You don't think that in America there is no poor man. There is poor man. Although they are getting money, very large sum of money, but they are utilizing in a different way, and they are poor. There are many poor. Intentionally, they have become poor. So therefore it is called manda-bhāgyā, that this... Each word of the Vedic scriptures is so nice.
In spite of... In America I have seen. In spite of ample money and resources, some people have voluntarily accepted to remain as very poor and wretched. Voluntarily. They like that. They have no systematic life. Therefore Bhāgavata says, manda-bhāgyā. If we are unfortunate, even despite all facilities, we cannot be able to accept it, that is called misfortune. Not that in the absence of money and other facilities, one becomes unfortunate, but even in the presence of all these things, one is unfortunate. That is the characteristics of this age. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ [SB 1.1.10].
So in this age, how it is possible to become siddha? Mukta api siddhānāṁ koṭiṣv api mahā..., nārāyaṇa-parāyaṇa. Nārāyaṇa-parāyaṇa is not very easy job. Muktānām api siddhānāṁ koṭiṣv api mahā-mune. But this is the special mercy of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that He is compassionate. Seeing the fallen souls of this age, He is distributing kṛṣṇa-prema so cheaply. What is that? "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa," that's all. Simply by chanting. Ihā haite sarva siddhi haibe tomāra. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is blessing everyone that "Be blessed. Take this benediction of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and be blessed."
So why should we give up this opportunity? That is our propaganda. Just like Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī, he is imploring, dānte nidhāya tṛṇakam. You know, in India, when one becomes very humble, submissive, he takes a straw in his mouth. Perhaps you know. Even in the village, still it is going on, that "I have become very humble, submissive to you." Dānte nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor nipātya, "and falling down on your feet," kṛtvā ca kāku-śatam, "and flattering you in hundred times," ahaṁ bravīmi, "I am just submitting before you one request."
What is that? He sādhavaḥ: "You are very great, you are very nice, and you are all sādhus. But my request is," sakalam eva vihāya dūrād, "whatever you have learned, please set aside for the time being. Please set aside." Sakalam eva vihāya dūrād. "Throw it away!" Then what to do? Sakalam eva vihāya dūrād caitanya-candra-caraṇe kurutānurāgam: "Please submit yourself on the lotus feet of Lord Caitanya."
Lord Caitanya is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. People misunderstood. Therefore Caitanya came. He took sannyāsa so that... It is the custom in our country that a sannyāsī is offered respect. That is our Vedic system. If one does not show any respect to a sannyāsī, he has to fast one day. That is the injunction. Still, India, they do not disrespect a sannyāsī, although many so-called sannyāsīs, they are taking advantage of this. That is another subject. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted sannyāsa so that people may respect Him. And simply by respecting Him, he'll be liberated. He is so kind.
So Rūpa Gosvāmī, he offers his respect to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He was prime minister in Nawab Hussain Shah's government. He retired and took to the path of Lord Caitanya. And when he first met at Allahabad, he offered this prayer: namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te [Cc. Madhya 19.53]: "My dear Lord, You are so munificent, You are so liberal than all incarnations. You are liberal, you are merciful than Kṛṣṇa also." So namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te: "You are offering love of Kṛṣṇa. It is so difficult to understand Kṛṣṇa, but You are so kind that You are directly offering love of Kṛṣṇa." Not only understanding, but also developing your dormant love for Kṛṣṇa.
So this is the mercy, causeless mercy, of Lord Caitanya. And He simply prescribes that you chant this mantra. As you see, these boys, when they're chanting, how they are in ecstasy. Immediately on the transcendental platform. Immediately. Not only here; everywhere where they are chanting. In every temple, if you see...
The advantage of these boys and girls is that they have no other hodgepodge in their head. They directly accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, they directly accept the instruction of Lord Caitanya, and they are making advance. Their fortune is that their brain is not congested with hodgepodge ideas. That is the idea. They actually... Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam [Bg. 18.66]. They have given up all other occupation and have accepted Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
So India also, we can do that. What is the difficulty? We must do this. We must accept this, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān [SB 1.3.28], and surrender unto Him. That is the intelligence. Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān mām prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. We are cultivating knowledge. Kṛṣṇa says, "After cultivation of knowledge for many, many births"—not in one life, but many, many births—"one, when actually intelligent, jñānavān, actually wise, he surrenders unto Me." Why should you wait for many, many births?
Supposing that you are very intelligent, you are very wise, you are speculating, but according to Bhagavad-gītā, why should you waste your time in that way, speculating? Panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamyaḥ [Bs. 5.34]. Speculating process will not help you. Ciraṁ vicinvan.
athāpi te deva padāmbuja-dvaya-
prasāda-leśānugṛhīta eva hi
jānāti tattvaṁ [bhagavan-mahimno]
na cānya eko 'pi ciraṁ vicinvan
One who has not received the favor of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, it is not possible to understand Kṛṣṇa. Bhakto 'si priyo 'si me [Bg. 4.3]. Just like Arjuna understood Kṛṣṇa because he was a bhakta, he was a dear friend of Kṛṣṇa.
So you have to become a dear friend, a bhakta, of Kṛṣṇa; then you'll understand what is Bhagavad-gītā, and then you'll be able to surrender unto Him. And the beginning of this devotional service is śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam [SB 7.5.23]. Simply you hear. Śravaṇam, first business, śravaṇam; then kīrtanam. In this way, gradually, we make advance in devotional service. And Kṛṣṇa says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55]: "Anyone who wants to understand Me, he has to follow the bhakti principle." Then he'll be able to understand Kṛṣṇa. Not any other process.
So our request is, like Prabodhānanda Sarasvatīpada, dānte nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor nipātya kāku-śataṁ kṛtvā cāhaṁ bravīmi, he sādhavaḥ sakala. Whatever you have learned, for the time being forget. Forget. Simply take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and you'll be happy.
Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break]
Guest (1) [Indian man]: ...particularly, the particular place, that is...?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is Goloka Vṛndāvana. Paras tasmād tu bhavo 'nya, mad-dhāma..., yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6].
Guest (1): For a man, automatically, he can become Bhagavān. What I mean to say...
Guest (1): For a man, automatically, he becomes Bhagavān.
Prabhupāda: No. He becomes a servant of Bhagavān. He is servant of Bhagavān. Realization means when he realizes that "I am servant, eternal servant of Bhagavān." That is realization.
Guest (1): So his realization is not Bhagavān.
Prabhupāda: No. Servant of Bhagavān.
Guest (1): Different from Bhagavān.
Guest (2): Sāyujya-mukti...
Prabhupāda: Sāyujya-mukti there is, but a devotee does not accept sāyujya-mukti. Sāyujya, sārūpya, sālokya, sāmīpya. There are five kinds of mukti, but sāyujya-mukti is not accepted by the devotee. But if anyone likes sāyujya-mukti, that is not difficult for Kṛṣṇa to offer him sāyujya-mukti.
Guest (1): So a man can never become Bhagavān.
Prabhupāda: No. How he can be Bhagavān?
Guest (1): And never become Brahman also?
Prabhupāda: No, Brahman he's already.
Guest (1): He is already Brahman?
Guest (1): And Paramātmā he is not.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Paramātmā is Param Brahman. There are two words: Brahman and Param Brahman. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna is accepting Kṛṣṇa, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12]. Arjuna is accepting Kṛṣṇa as the Param Brahman, the Supreme Brahman. [Hindi with guest] Brahman, every living entity is Brahman, because part and parcel of Supreme Brahman.
Just like particle of gold is gold. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūta [Bg. 15.7]. Kṛṣṇa says that "These jīva, they are My parts and parcel." So as part and parcel, they are also Brahman. Just like the particles of gold is gold, but it is particle, and that is mine. Spark. Spark of fire is fire, but that is qualitatively one, not quantitatively.
Guest (1): Naraji[?] Śrī Aurobindo...
Prabhupāda: Why you are quoting Aurobindo?
Guest (1): He is..., he was also a saint.
Prabhupāda: There were many saints.
Guest (1): So I can ask one more question? Śrī Kṛṣṇa says...
Prabhupāda: Why don't you touch Bhagavad-gītā? Yes. Do you think Aurobindo is greater than Kṛṣṇa?
Guest (1): He says that...
Prabhupāda: He says he is greater than Kṛṣṇa?
Guest (1): Yes.
Prabhupāda: Then he's a nonsense, if anyone says like that.
Guest (1): He says that...
Prabhupāda: What he has done greater than Kṛṣṇa? Why do you accept like that? What he has done greater than Kṛṣṇa?
Guest (1): He says, one who goes in...[?]
Prabhupāda: Don't say like that, unauthorized, "He is greater than Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. And you say he's greater than Kṛṣṇa. Anyone can say like that, "I am greater than Kṛṣṇa." So why do you accept like that, unless you see practically that he has done greater than Kṛṣṇa? Huh?
Guest (1): That is a... And he said, I said... It can be said the Aurobindo was [indistinct].
Prabhupāda: No, no. Suppose if I say "I am greater than the President of the United States," will you accept?
Guest (1): Sad-dharma [Hindi]. How he says sarva-dharmān parityajya... [Bg. 18.66]?
Prabhupāda: Because you have created so many rascal dharma; therefore, you have to give it up.
Guest (1): The position of dharma is dharati, sa dharma.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And what is that dhārayet? What is your position? You are servant. You cannot give up your servitude. All of you, you have assembled here, can you say you are master? You are all servant. Is anyone that you are the master, supreme master? Who is a master? You are all servants, but you are servant of māyā. That's all. You are servant of your senses. Your senses dictate something, and you are obliged to abide by that.
So you have to give up this service attitude of māyā and you have to take the real servitude of Kṛṣṇa. That is your salvation. Constitutionally, you are servant, nothing but servant. Artificially you are claiming that "I am master." Nobody's master. You are servant. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. That is the real identity of jīva. He's eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa.
So as soon as you accept that position, you are liberated. That is your natural position. You are constitutionally a servant. Artificially, you are thinking, "I am master." That is māyā.
kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare
pāsate māyā tare japatīyā dhare
Why you are..., we have come in contact with māyā? Because artificially we're thinking that "I am the lord." Everyone is trying to be lord here in this material world. And when he's frustrated, he says, "Oh, it is false."
Nobody is master. Everyone is servant. Try to understand this fact. Who is not a servant here? Is anyone, that "I am not servant, anyone's servant"? Everyone is servant. If anyone has nothing to serve, he keeps a dog and cat and becomes a servant of the dog and cat. I have seen in America.
He has no family responsibility; still, he keeps a dog and serves whole day, and he says, "The dog is the best friend." Because you want to serve. That is your attitude. That is your constitutional position. You want to serve; you want to love somebody. And if it is misplaced, that is māyā. When it is properly done, that is liberation.
Guest (3): But Mahājī [indistinct] the person from the worshiper...
Guest (3): And I think Rādhārāṇī helps a man to reach Kṛṣṇa, to hear, you know, the things...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Rādhārāṇī engages him to Kṛṣṇa's service. Daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ [Bg. 9.13]. You have to take shelter of spiritual energy or material energy. That is your position. Therefore, you are marginal energy. So when you take shelter of the material energy, you forget Kṛṣṇa. And when you take shelter of spiritual energy, you understand your real position. [end]